Should the deceptions have won the war in IDW?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by ultramagnus1, Nov 8, 2017.

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Should the cons have won in idw

  1. Yea

    31.7%
  2. No

    58.5%
  3. Maybe not sure

    9.8%
  1. redwolfbear

    redwolfbear Well-Known Member

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    read up on megatron during the lost light series

    IDW Generation 1 continuity

    Sentinel Prime used a forerunner of the shadowplay technique in order to recruit a series of loyal sleeper agents, including Red Alert. Last Light

    During the days of the Institute, Pious Maximus, a noted anti-ratioist, was spotted by Prowl and Tumbler undergoing Shadowplay at Trepan's Relinquishment Clinic. Patternism

    After his capture by the Senate, Senator Shockwave was submitted to a form of Shadowplay so strong it completely suppressed all emotion, turning the energetic and well meaning senator into a cold, detached scientist driven purely by logic and self-interest. In an unusual move added in purely out of spite, Shockwave also underwent Empurata. An Intimate Beheading

    Around the same time, the Senate sent Froid and Trepan to Messatine, to perform Shadowplay on the dissident Nucleon miner Megatron. Trepan began the process but was interrupted by the arrival of Rung, who informed him that "personality adjustment" now legally required both of their signatures. Before Rung could review Froid's assessment, the mine had to be evacuated because of an energy surge that rendered the Nucleon dangerously unstable. Births, Deaths, and Interventions

    Following the start of the Great War, the Institute was rebranded as the "New Institute" under the command of Zeta Prime and he persuaded Tumbler to study mnemosurgery there as Trepan's apprentice. Tumbler would go on to be known as "Chromedome" after performing Shadowplay on thousands of victims—mostly Decepticons but also a few dissident Autobots—and he was about to do the same to Soundwave when the facility was attacked by Overlord who shot Chromedome, rescued Soundwave and abducted Trepan to learn the secrets of mnemosurgery for himself. Chromedome almost quit the New Institute as a result but continued working there alongside Mirage, Pharma, "Brainstorm", Remembrance Day and "Highbrow". The Reluctant Specialist

    When the crew of the Lost Light discovered a dead duplicate of Rodimus which was missing half its head, Ratchet theorized that a failed attempt at shadowplay was responsible for the duplicate Rodimus's demise (it turned out to be being merged with a quantum generator). Predestination: A Beginner's Guide

    why do you think megatron became so deranged and unhinged in the head in his way

    why do you think he has such a horrible all consuming fear of shadow play personally?

    he done made them suffer and then some even, he went full on world war hulk on them and cybertron with the great war.
     
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  2. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    Yes, but apart from Red Alert all those other examples were from the beginning of the war at the latest.
    And they weren't all about the results.
    What i wonder is: shouldn't there be more bots like Shockwave and Red Alert?
    There could be a group of ex shadowplay victims striving for goverment to research who fell victim to the practise and make ex mnemosurgeons heal them.
    And what might be discovered when some of those bots get their real personality back.
    See, these are the kind of things that color a fictional world, but are sorely missing from IDW.
    Roberts invented some great concepts but too little has been done with them.
     
  3. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    We don't know that there weren't more bots like Shockwave and Red Alert. Save, in the Shockwave cases it'd just be 'their personality' to us, and besides odds are most wouldn't survive, and in Red Alert cases we'd never even know if they're not triggered.

    Heh, imagine for a second- hundreds of sleeper agents, but with their handlers a million years dead so no-one ever knows.

    Then there's also Chromedome erasing a bit of Prowl's memory and Bombshell using that as a backdoor method to control him.

    It's also GI Joe vs Transformers.

    It's been done a few times, and it wouldn't lead to the kind of interesting post-war politics and development we've gotten. Autobots win, you can have Decepticons like Starscream and Soundwave grow in interesting ways. Decepticons win, you don't really get the same kind of integrated society thing.



    Basically, a Decepticons Victorious means one of two things: Either one, a different type of war, much more underground, or two, the autobots dead. The first has been done a couple times and the second doesn't interest me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  4. Danny-Boy

    Danny-Boy Centurion

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    Plus, if the Decepticons had won the war, the idea of the NAILs wouldn't have really worked. Of course they don't like the Decepticons, they're the bad guys. But an entire race that hates the good guys? That's way more interesting.
     
  5. hardlurk

    hardlurk Well-Known Member

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    the decepticons are the good guys, and they have already won, the most important thing:

    my heart
     
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  6. NoiseMaker

    NoiseMaker Well-Known Member

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    Having just spent 10 mins staring at this.. i cannot see vader at all, sorry. It just looks like a very upset fish, who has been hauled out on to land and is finding it significantly harder to breath for some reason.
     
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  7. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    A Maori warrior :p 
     
  8. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    :lol  Yeah.
    The IDW post-war politics could be a lot more interesting than what sadly it has been. But there have been good moments.
    A Decepticon victory would not have been very interesting for the reasons you stated, but I still think it would be interesting to have some miniseries taking place during the empire.
    It would not be the usual Autobot guerilla because the Autobot army would still exist. They would just be on the defensive.
    But what would be interesting is to have those series take a look at the structure of such a situation, at life for soldiers on both sides and for civilians and other races dependent on either side.
    That is the kind of worldbuilding I'd like to see.
     
  9. jaws

    jaws Well-Known Member

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    The 'Cons need to win something :duel 
     
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  10. Rabid Robot

    Rabid Robot Phase 7er

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    Simanzi has to count
     
  11. ultramagnus1

    ultramagnus1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for getting involved in the discussion guys. Some great points.
     
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  12. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    The New Institute mechs will include Mirage and Pharma but some Autobots loyalty are forced prior to the Great War. Mirage true loyalty came during the Combiner Wars where he made the conscious decision. So in essence I am thinking without Shadowplay could the Autobots won war on their own merits I am not sure. That Shadowplay if done sloppily can create mental issues ranging from phobias, paranioa, and insanity in some. So whatever victory the Autobots had was cheapen by this concept.
     
  13. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    It still annoys me that AHM, Omega Supreme made further points on what happened to Kup's team that Autobots everywhere were getting massacred; thanks to Sunstreakers treachery, every Autobot defense system was no more and the Decepticons were sweeping across the Autobots, practically Battlestar Galactica style. Omega heard thousands of calls for help and was nearly overwhelmed himself, but being Omega, fought them off and high tailed for Prime.

    Then later on, more Autobots show up somehow, not angry and bitter, full of stories how they survived by the skin of their teeth and wondering how their entire network was exposed and used against them.
     
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  14. redwolfbear

    redwolfbear Well-Known Member

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    its a miracle no one has seen fit to murder sunstreaker for his stupidity in the matter
     
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  15. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    They have reason but you have to admit Sunstreaker kept pretty low profile in the comics. The people who want him dead the most are part of the combiner team. Mirage because he was framed for treason. Ironhide because he was a patsy and help cement belief that Mirage was guilty, Beyond saying words about Optimus Prime and death of Sideswipe and that bit he did Lost Light he is visible but not making waves. Sunstreaker been part of a lot of combiner bonds so may be the psychic link is keeping him alive, but it is not sunny disposition.

    However, for various reasons I believe that Autobots were fighting dirty and there is no reason other than that. Shadowplay created some soldiers for the Autobots but the sheer power and firepower gone to the Decepticons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  16. Coffee

    Coffee (╭☞ꗞᨓꗞ)╭☞

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    There wouldn't actually be "peace" if the Decepticons won the war, and I think the war can only really be considered won for them if most if not all the opposing Autobot forces were decimated.
     
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  17. redwolfbear

    redwolfbear Well-Known Member

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    yeah and a lot of them cons were deranged in the head obviously with shadow play having played a role in each of their lives to various degreees I mean just look at the work it did on megatrons twisted mind between the shadowplay and that beating whirl gave megatron in prison
     
  18. WilyMech

    WilyMech Well-Known Member

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    So were the Autobots. I suspect Mirage and Pharma were Shadowplayed to join that faction and would make sense later insanity and former trust issues. I believed that Pharma went insane because of Shadowplay. Mirage is not exactly gregarious person with the Autobots but his bio said he at one time had a lot upper class friends but now it is hand fill ev even if it is that. We know Red Alert's paranoia was result of ShadowPlayed and even Prowl exhibited signs of this. Mirage's own Spotlight is proven he flitting between Autobot and Decepticon factions we still don't know his real motivations to join his current faction.

    Strategically the Decepticons had the momentum and with out the MTO and those soldiers were Shadowplayed it was good chance that the Autobots would lose. Soundwave would had frown on Shadowplay as much as Megatron does and so the Decepticons initially were willing soldiers from that faction. I say there insanity stems from else where through what they did during the war and what they were willing to do.
     
  19. redwolfbear

    redwolfbear Well-Known Member

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    also in part from what the @#$%ed up $#itbag functionist and council, the senate did messing up and ruining the lives of the general cybertronian population what with their being such tyrannical despotic monsters in their way, concerning functionism ratioism and shapism I mean just look at how whirl turned out for the experience no wonder the guys so glitched up in the head
     
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  20. prowl07

    prowl07 Well-Known Member

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    They did win!

    [​IMG]
     
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