Aren't gender and sexuality separate things? It shouldn't be grouped under one question.

If by gender, you mean female Transformers, then yes. I'm always supportive of more female Transformers.

However, please leave sexuality out, it just feels weird. Regardless of orientation, I would really prefer that sexuality be left out of this show.

 

Should we have transofrmers of both genders? Yes.

Does it need explaining? No.

Should there be attraction between different genders? Yes. (BW silverbolt and Blackarachnia is a good example).

Anything more? No.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said. Of course, HOW direct those parallels are, is where a lot of this discussion emerges. Obviously TF's have many parallels with humans, but with varying degrees of symmetry, both literal and metaphorically. TF's are then in a special position between human and alien, between organic concepts of life and the mechanical... so in many cases, I'd prefer those similarities to be merely metaphorical, in order to preserve the element of "strangeness" that I believe is crucial to the Transformers concept.

Well, not really, considering that we have been given a wide gamut of other types of stories and behaviours in Transformers. Transformers has (recently in particular) become the theatre for ideas that good sci-fi should always be. So I don't think addressing a range of stories outside the ever-present "space war and its consequences" could possibly be considered a bad thing. Not every Transformers story needs to be (or should be) "Band of Brothers". And trying to tell a story about "the horrors of war" (which some people apparently deem more appropriate for children than non-normative romance) rings horribly false if the corollaries of human relationships are not also (in some degree) acknowledged.

But that IS how I feel!  

I understand that in frivolous fantasy, certain things, the why's and wherefore's, can certainly fade into the background in favour of the fun stuff. The problem is that in Transformers, which undeniably IS a fantasy, we've already gone beyond the purely frivolous, and into domains of fiction, fandom, and sci-fi that does demand that some of those ambiguous areas become filled in. This is a pretty common arc for lots of fictions (and especially fantasy/scifi). As the fan base matures, expands, and becomes more complex, so then does the fiction itself.

The fact is that 99% of the time, the fans applaud creators who build on the Transformers world, and supply explanations for things. It is rightly considered an enrichment of the fiction. It's absurd to suggest that gender/sexuality hasn't become the transforming robot elephant in the room... which is not to say that it needs to be pursued to its furthest degree... just that it should actually be addressed or acknowledged in a meaningful way, rather than conspicuously avoided.

It's not a flaw when there is no romantic subplot in Transformers stories. It IS a flaw if such stories cannot be told, however. Do you see the distinction there?

That rings rather false. Hasbro marketing executives may manage the fiction, but they are not the creative impulse behind it. Transformers stories (in movies, cartoons and comics) have all tried to flesh out certain aspects of TF culture, spirituality and biology, and have stepped into some potentially contentious domains already. To not address the gender issue in some credible way is to leave a gap. Now, Furman's Arcee story is a pretty good example of a pretty awful way of doing so, not only because it is inherently offensive, but also because it doesn't even hold up to it's own logic (it's a sloppily written and explored concept). Obviously not every fan will agree with whatever official canonical word comes down the pipe, but Furman managed to go wrong with almost everyone on that one.

Also, in terms of "official canon" I think that things are a lot more free than suggested. Obviously Roberts and Barber are not running with the official cosmology that Hasbro has been half-assing over the last couple of years. Their Primus myth is something totally new, as are many of the concepts that they have introduced into Cybertronian culture through their series. These have variably directed or simply enriched the stories they tell, and the result has been (unequivocally, in my opinion) the best, most interesting Transformers stories written to date.

Arguably, romance IS in fact relevant in MTMTE, even if it is merely in the quasi-romantic bond between two supporting characters. And yes, I think they're doing good stuff and playing a very mature game with our beloved Transformers franchise in general. So I think that pretty much deflates any arguments right off the bat over what "should and should not" be introduced into Transformers (like gender/sexuality). However, let's step back from this for a moment. In answer to the title of this thread, gender and even sexuality HAVE ALREADY been 'introduced' into Transformers... however, nobody has actually made any attempt to explain or integrate it into setting. So yeah... in terms of having a self-consistent fiction, that is a flaw, absolutely.

Midichlorians much?  

But I think that's the cheap way out. It's like saying "we have no faith in our ability to write something good. Some people won't like it, so let's never speak of it..." which is regressive in the extreme... and yes, pathetic. Every single Transformers story ever that has taken us even a baby-step away from being purely a 22-minute toy commercial, and into a fiction with any semblance of wit or creativity or intelligence (such as it is), has been due to the desire to make the fiction bigger, better, and richer. There are missteps, sure. There are tangents, there are parallel fictions and schisms between comics and cartoons and generations... but it has all contributed to a larger, greater, more interesting whole.

Don't be absurd. Knockout was absolutely founded on a "gay" archetype, just as Jazz was founded on a "black" archetype and Ironhide on a "cowboy" archetype (or stereotypes, even.) Don't pretend to be less culturally literate than you are.

And just as Jazz is not really "black" and Ironhide is not really a cowboy, it's quite likely that (depending on Prime's official stance on Transformer attraction) Knockout is not really "gay", although he is totally intended as a riff on the flamboyant gay man motif. You could argue that his seductive compliments to Prime on his "rims", and Starscream's disgust ("Oh, you're one of THOSE...") could indicate that Knockout is actually an alt-mode fetishist (which again carries sexual connotations, even if they are not explicitly so in this scenario). However, this alt-mode fetishism is very much serving as a corollary for homosexuality and/or alternative lifestyle in the Prime context. To try to dodge that is to utterly deny the basic function of reading the media and its messages.

Nah, that's pretty much a big part of this thread... especially if we accept the idea that Transformers have no true gender or sexuality, yet can still form "romantic" attachments to one another, then the concept of "gay robots" is unavoidable... though whether this would be treated as such within Cybertronian culture is another question.

Gender and sexuality, while different, are rather intrinsically linked by the cultural norms that surround them. If you have gender without sexuality... well, that's fine, but then why would those genders exhibit traits of sexual difference, or pursue activities that are normally governed by sexual attraction?

And I don't think that this thread is really discussing just whether "sex" should be part of the TV shows (most would agree that it should not) but whether the very concept of biology and sexuality (even symbolically) has any role in ANY part of the fiction.

zmog

 

there group call evil soccer moms -they hate volicons in anime and live action

 

I don't think it needs to be added. All of the fans already consider some Transformers boys & some Transformers girls. There is really no need to officiate that.

 

I was looking for an article talking about reproduction of transformers and found one talking about the various forms of sex in fanfiction:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7760710/1/Of-Cybertronian-genders-and-reproduction

 

No, because they are aliens and therefore the writers - unless we get lucky and wind up with a particularly adventurous one - are bound by human notions of sexuality.

I mean, considering Cybertronians don't exactly procreate in what I can only call a "traditional" sense, there's nothing stopping them all from being polygamists with three different genders or something. But you're never gonna see that in an official media.

 

Hate to nitpick and/or go off-topic but isn't this technically considered as a Zombie Thread now?

 

Sexuality as a concept? I think that's a great avenue for exploring character development, and when done well can be a great plotline for the characters involved. A good and well-done romantic relationship, heterosexual or otherwise, is a good way to make an audience care about the characters involved.

Sex itself? Not in any way resembling what we classify it as would I want that in TF fiction. No analogues to human genitalia, especially; nobody wants robo-dongs flopping about. Maybe an analog that's specifically unique to Cybertron, but not human-like in any way. After all, they need to reproduce somehow, and I seriously doubt they wouldn't eventually adapt a method of reproducing that doesn't involve magical artifacts or specific locations.

Like, little scenes of characters having romantic moments is fine; we need to relate to them in some capacity, after all. I just don't see why they need to be incredibly alien.

After all, the best science fiction stories don't make their races absolutely nothing like us, but instead give the audience things to relate to with even the most alien-looking of species.

 

I know this thread recently got necrobumped, but I found this. It's a long read and a couple years old, but worth it.

 

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/tfw2005-tech-support/631403-tfw2005-rules.html