Sex chosen or not?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Shockblast2, Mar 26, 2012.

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  1. Shockblast2

    Shockblast2 Banned

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    Since this has been brought up and shot down in a recent thread I figured I would start one that is 100% site rule friendly and relates to the other thread up now.

    My question is this? Was the sex of a Transformer pre-determined before thier creation? For example, was Arcee created as a female transformer? Did she choose this or was it chosen for her? What about Optimus? Was he created male or did he choose it later in his life?


    Thoughts?
     
  2. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    There is no conclusive proof of sexual reproduction in Transformers, therefore there is no need for sexual gendering. All Transformers have personalities, which we have seen are a function not only of original programming, but through individual experiences. These personalities vary wildly from transformer to transformer, and can contain a wide range of traits, some of which appear "masculine" to a human observer, and some of which appear "feminine". As a result, some characters appear "female" to the audience, especially when their form conforms to our expectations of femininity. However, there are numerous characters who self-identify on the female side of the gender spectrum, even though they do not have a "feminine" form, such as Strika and Armada Ironhide. It is possible there is correlation between these traits and feminine forms as a part of design, to better suit a Cybertronian to their designated task or specialty, but this is not always the case.

    There are even instances of romantic love between characters, both of different "genders" (Silverbolt and Blackarachnia), and of the same "gender" (Chromedome & Rewind in the IDW comics). Due to the lack of true gender in cybertronian biology, sometimes this can count as both cases, as in the case of Tigertron and Airazor, who is "female" in the american Beast Wars series and "male" in the Japanese version.
     
  3. Shockblast2

    Shockblast2 Banned

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    I don't understand. This does not answer my question. Arcee is a female, feminine robot? The question is this, did Arcee choose this herself, or was it chosen for her?

    Your comment about their being no need for gendering doesn't add up as it must have meant something for there to be a difference. Obviously Arcee exists and is female. If there was no need for her to be so then why is she a she?
     
  4. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Neither. Arcee's personality is a function of her original programming and the experiences she has had during her life. As with humans, much of what she has become has been outside of a conscious decision. As to WHY she has these feminine traits, that's the real question, isn't it?

    While Transformers have shown an ability to alter their forms through re-formatting in some continuities, this is generally limited to their alt-mode and minor aesthetic changes to robot mode. Their basic build and shape appears to be set after their construction.

    Arcee is not female, however. She is a cybertronian (who are without gender) who possesses a feminine form and personality traits. She is no more a female than the motorcycle she turns into.

    The only Transformers who would possibly have true genders (other than human and presumably nebulon head/target/power master partners) would be those from the Beast era, due to them being a mixture of technological and organic components. And even then, there is no evidence to confirm or deny sexual reproduction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  5. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    I'm pretty sure a TF's masculinity or femininity is predetermined.

    And here I was thinking Chromedome and Rewind were just good friends...
     
  6. Shockblast2

    Shockblast2 Banned

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    I agree. Predetermined.
     
  7. Shockblast2

    Shockblast2 Banned

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    My friend, your favorite TF must be Sideswipe. As this is what you are going to my question. Did Arcee pick her gender? Yes or no.
     
  8. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I'm saying it's a lot more complicated than a yes or no answer, and to pidgeonhole an answer in a way that suits whatever agenda you're trying to push is going to result in something that is completely inaccurate in one way or another.

    If you want a bare-bones, evidenced answer, there is no evidence in any continuity to indicate that Arcee "chose" her feminine personality traits. HOWEVER, many of her feminine aspects were introduced through experimental alteration of her form and mind in the IDW G1-verse version of the character, and her experiences have been shown to have had a massive impact on other parts of her personality, such as in her Prime incarnation and the Botcon comics, so this is not sufficient proof that they could not change over time.

    In the Japanese Beast Wars manga, for example, Airazor re-formatted from a male form to a female form, for example.
     
  9. VictoryLeo19

    VictoryLeo19 Well-Known Member

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    I think it was intentionally left unknown. I'd wager that in writing the G1 series, it appeared bland? to some of the writers without a "female" type role. I wouldn't doubt that 99.9% of people asked would say Arcee is a woman. But that doesn't mean she is or is not within the Transformers continuity. I think it had more to do with plot than anything else. Mixed genders add more depth to a story generally speaking. (or at least the appearance of them)

    And if you're still trying to figure out if they CHOSE them, well I'd assume not only on the basis that transformers are "created" in a specific manner, then again, only my opinion. It is a cartoon show after all.
     
  10. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran

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    If this is really about Transformer genders, it should be in the TFGD forum.
     
  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Part of me wants to point out that this probably belongs in Transformers GD.

    The other part of me figures that this thread would be swamped by rabid Arcee fans within minutes of being in Transformers GD.

    So, I remain neutral on the matter.

    EDIT: Dang, ninja'd by process!
     
  12. Shockblast2

    Shockblast2 Banned

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    All - Yes, did they choose them or not. That is the question. There seems to be some confusion on this.


    Yes, this is what it is about. Gender with Transformers.
     
  13. Deceptijohn

    Deceptijohn Metallikato Master

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    It's not about what I believe. The Transformers mythos is pretty unambiguous when it come to the role of Primus in Cybertronian history. It's not open to interpretation. It is what it is. Just like their lack of sexuality is not open to interpretation, there is nothing to interpret since there is no sex in Transformers.

    If we want to be completely realist about it, there are female-shaped robots in the TF universe because there are people who might buy their toys. It's not any deeper than that.
     
  14. Shockblast2

    Shockblast2 Banned

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    And thank you for your opinion. Not sure why you thought insulting a group of people w/o recourse was productive to this conversation?


    What about Optimus and the rest of they guys? Did they choose too? Noone has hit on that side of the topic yet.
     
  15. Hook

    Hook Out of Options Veteran

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    A Transformers-related thread in a non-Transformers section of the site?

    *kicks thread in TFGD*
     
  16. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    Nope, no female toys in g1.
     
  17. Tony_Bacala

    Tony_Bacala Car Robots Professional Administrator

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    I have cleaned up this thread. I know the original point of the thread, as seen in the Christian TFGroups wall, but if it can stay on topic, without making inferences to real world situations, then it is ok.

    If it continues to devolve into calls of trolling and jabs at other threads on the site existing, it will be shut down.
     
  18. The621

    The621 Fuck you, that's why!

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    To be honest... This is kinda a vague answer.

    We've seen G1 comic and cartoon from America, Japan, and Europe that cover this...

    Comics set this as predetermined by Primus. Cartoon likewise, though not specific on origin. Questionably, the Victory comics had the appearance of the Decepticon Dino Force's children. Deathsaurus was shown to have a "wife" and Leozack has a "sister". So we can only say predetermined.

    G2 introduced budding, which was asexual reproduction. So that was by choice.

    Beast Wars in comic and cartoon... Vaguely leaning on predetermined? Such is the case with Airazor. Rhinox used a component of Cheetor to save Airazor's life and Rhinox interacted with Airazor via programming, which would have lead us to think that Airazor would be a male. But that wasn't the case. Even the prequel Botcon comics rectify this with Airazor's appearance in her pre-earth form.

    Armada and Energon just outright say predetermined with Energon Arcee's appearance. Cybertron doesn't seem to cover this.

    Then you got Animated and Prime.

    You'll learn to adjust to his posts...

    Most likely predetermined.
     
  19. Shockblast2

    Shockblast2 Banned

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    Ok, thanks for the assist. I have been asking for some assistance all morning with no recourse.



    Thank you. And I trust you will block any member from this discussion who does this going forward, just like I was done this morning on the other forum?
     
  20. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    It's important to remember that masculinity and femininity in the Cybertronians are simply another aspect of how their personality traits fit together, as there is no biological basis for the two in their species.

    It's likely the same for the "guys" as the "girls. There are numerous "male" transformers with traits that some would attribute to a stereotypically "feminine" outlook, such as Sunstreaker and Tracks' pre-occupation with their appearance, Hound's pacifism, Star Saber's nuturing attitude towards children, etc. etc. If these Transformers had a more feminine voice and form, they could possibly be seen as "female" by the audience. A red repaint of Tracks called Road Rage, for example, IS a female character.

    There's also examples of personality shifts as a result of experiences, as with Arcee. Bluestreak's defining character feature, his tendancy to run his mouth, was not an aspect present in his construction, it was a post-traumatic coping mechanism that arose after he watched his home city burn during a Decepticon attack.

    But there is no conclusive evidence that these personality aspects are a CONSCIOUS decision, however.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
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