So, you think that there was no difference in Cybertron before and after the events in DOTM?

Megatron asked for a truce. Optimus' response was to attack him and decapitate him. Whatever their capacities or intentions is immaterial when strictly talking moral decision-making. Megatron did not continue to attack and kill Optimus after Sentinel was debilitated and Optimus was vulnerable. Instead, Megatron chose to talk through it.

When Optimus shot him the first time, he was crawling around on the ground. When he shot him through the brain, he was completely defenseless.

Are you proposing that there is only one way to interpret the tone of the ending?

Sam was given this information by Prime. He would not have been able to guess this behavior. Furthermore, the fiction presented stated that the Allspark was the only thing that could create Cybertronian life. Prime was willing do extinguish the perpetuation of his race merely to protect the human race from an aggressor. This is questionable to me, if I were a Cybertronian. As a human, I'm like, F*)(&* Yeah!!!

 

There will be no peaceful world ever.
If Decepticons dominated Cybertron, It will be good for cybertronians, but not for other races.
If Autobots dominated Cybertron, It will be good for other races, but not for their own race.
The war was started because Autobots had opposed Decepticons, so we can say that Autobots are the rebels.

 

Wait.. What?

Ah, yes. "Peace Through Tyranny" that's a truce to commit to. *rolls eyes*
Megatron was talking through it with a SHOTGUN in his hand, while Optimus was missing an arm. Prime had no weapons in hand at that point. He wasn't offered a truce, he was offered slavery.

No, he really wasn't. He tried to talk his way through it and convince Optimus, he still had his arm mounted spike and we know he was capable of great violence. Letting him live would've meant certain doom. If he was capable of devising the space bridge, he was capable of more had he lived. He was executed, but not defenseless.

DAFUQ? You said it was a tragedy. I didn't dispute that, I said I know what the ending was. In no way did I say I was changing the interpretation. Did you even read what I said? DAFUQ?

The only Cybertronians finding it questionable were the Decepticons, who destroyed Cybertron in the first place. The Autobots under his command said nothing. The arriving Autobots said nothing. In fact, Leadfoot said "We're not going anywhere!" They intended to stay on Earth with us. Walk a mile in Prime's shoes and then tell me what the correct course of action is. Hint: He did the right thing.

Wow. Jump to conclusions much? Especially wrong ones? Prime said it was "A great empire. Peaceful and just." It was, at one point, a peacful world. Megatron and his Decepticons destroyed that peace. They are the rebels, not Prime and the Autobots. The only way the Autobots could be seen as rebels is that they fought for peace and opposed the war whenever and wherever they could, but because the war was so prevalent and the Decepticons outnumbered them, thus making war the popular opinion, they were seen as rebels. They were more freedom fighters than guerrilla rebels as you have them labeled.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" The Autobots did something, but the Decepticons were the original rebels.

 

You said that the Cybertron was a dead planet. I propose that Cybertron is in a MUCH worse state after DOTM than it was prior. That state being complete annihilation. Before DOTM and Optimus/Autobots' actions, there was a Cybertron to go back to. Now, there is not.

This was an extreme measure.

That's one interpretation, I guess. It doesn't change the fact that instead of accepting a truce (where Megatron could've easily killed Optimus), Optimus killed Megatron. It was immoral. That doesn't mean that it wasn't the most beneficial to parties involved. It's just immoral, and it is a predictable pattern for this particular character. If given the chance, Optimus will always execute a defenseless Decepticon. Additionally, his stated purpose is the annihilation of the Decepticons. This is immoral. But, probably still justified. These are not mutually exclusive ideas.

In these movies, I'd go as far as to say that Optimus is an anti-hero. He is a brutally effective killer. How many blockbuster action heroes go around cutting enemies heads off? That's Optimus' main move. He doesn't seem to prefer negotiation. He executes. Time and again.

Again, I'm not saying that it's the wrong decision. But, clearly, Optimus is not a moral hero. He uses extremely questionable actions to achieve his goals.

This is your interpretation. Why would Sentinel stop attacking? He at least still had both of his limbs. Based upon his actions, he was defenseless. He might've transformed and drove away, tried to pickup his weapons, whatever. He didn't do any of those things. He crawled on the ground, talking. I stand by my stance that he was defenseless. If he had had any defenses, he would've used them.

I'm sorry. From your tone, I thought that you were disagreeing with me.

This thread asks the question if Sentinel's and Megatron's actions are justified. I believe that they are. I also believe that Optimus' actions are justified if viewed from the perspective of a human. I also believe that all three characters are deeply flawed and hence, tragic. This is one of the things I enjoy most about the movies.

 

Don't you know if you asked a leader of the rebels about their rebellion, then he would say that their rebellion was intended for good reasons.

 

No, I'm not. How can anyone defend evil? Seriously, I see it not just here, but in various other threads and forums and it is scary. Yes it's a movie, but if some are willing to defend evil, seriously sit and try to reason it, what in the hell would happen if something like this happened for real?(well not with alien robots or anything) Would they still try to defend those that are trying to kill and enslave us?? And what about the rapists and murders? Are they justified in what they do? My God, they'd all be on the street according to some of these guys.

Saving his planet by destroying another is not justifiable, in any way, shape or form. Could you please tell me what makes it right??
I suppose slavery is justifiable too? He ordered the deaths destruction in Chicago! As I said, there would only be another war on Cybertron and they would have moved on to claim another world to fix their's again. A never ending cycle..........

@TFXProtector: I love you!  I agree with all you've said 100%!


So Optimus is wrong for trying to stop the destruction of another planet the way his own was destroyed(it's dead!)? Explain? Sorry but my morals dictate that this would be the RIGHT thing to do, and exactly what a PRIME should do. And don't go saying that OP didn't care about his planet. He fought to the end for his home and went through space to TRY to bring it back. Do you really think that Megs would have done good with it? Pretty much tells ya in the first movie what he would have done.......and guess what? Bringing back Cyberton was NOT on the list. Destroying our planet and creating an army to rule the universe was.

 

Only because they would be doing the same to us... if not worse.

 

The movie Pink Floyd: The Wall.

This is what I got from it: he raged gainst the man... against the machine- until he ripped his face off, reborn- and became the New Man, the New Machine.

There is always a 5th Column that revolts and eventually comes into power.
In time, a 5th column will emerge from it, revolt, and come into power.

The pendulum always swings.

 

And what makes Megatron entitled to a truce?

And Optimus did the right and smart thing.

Megatron made it a point to state that HE wanted to lead.

Which would have been a very, very bad thing. I'm glad that Optimus capped him! And you should be too.

 

Evil is a very easy word to use. It even feels good to say it. But, it's almost always misused. Fortunately, there are not a whole lot of cut and dried examples of pure evil in history to use as examples. We've got Hitler, Darfur, Native American genocide, OBL, etc. But, we have a tendency to label anything we disagree with as evil.

I hate to trot out a Phil101 type of example, but I'm really trying to help the people that can't understand those of us that can see shades of grey (and red LOL) to Megatron and Sentinel. So, let's take the American Revolutionary War. Do you think the British had a lot of nice things to say about their colonists? Those evil people, hiding behind rocks and trees like savages! Refusing our good king! They must be put down.

This is what we call a straw man. Nobody here that I've seen has claimed that Megatron and Sentinel were good guys. Nor, do I think anyone of sound mind would defend a convicted rapist. It does not further the discussion to bring out exaggerated statements that not one of your opponents have made.

The US has the distinction of being the only nation on Earth to utilize an atomic weapon not once, but twice. Are the nuclear annihilations of Nagasaki and Hiroshima evil?

So, a planet is only worthwhile if it is inhabited? There is no other course of action between destroying the actual planet of Cybertron and the enslavement of the entire human race?

 

What makes an alleged murder entitled to a trial? The victim's family most assuredly doesn't want one. The defendant's family most assuredly wants one.

My feelings are irrelevant. I'm discussing justification of behavior and morality of behavior in the characters in the story. Neither the protagonists nor the antagonists act morally for the most part.

 

A trial is to defend one's self.
A truce grants you leverage and authority.

The 2 have nothing to do with each other.

Try again: How is Megatron entitled to a truce?

I dunno how the protagonist doesn't act moral given the circumstances. As a matter of fact, Optimus goes way too far to get Sentinel off the hook for his crimes.

Sentinel got what he had coming- from both: the devil he thought he could deal with and from those he betrayed.

And Megatron was the rabbid dog that was finally put down.

 

I wonder how much ressources they would of taken seeing how big Cybertron is compared to Earth they would of taken half of it no?

 

You cannot equate the oppression and enslavement of a people with the actions to end a world war.

 

That is not a straw man at all. Jazz brought up that the destruction of Chicago. I was stating that the "good guys" destroy entire cities all the time. Whether or not it is an evil act depends solely upon whether you are a citizen of the country in which the city was destroyed.

That is a possible outcome; not the only one. A truce's point is cessation of hostilities.

Because he asked for one. I'll go one more and say that Megatron is entitled to a trial. Of course, not by human courts, but if there is a judicial system for Cybertron, Megatron should most certainly be tried for war crimes, and probably executed as well. Optimus did not act morally in executing Megatron or Sentinel. Perhaps it was the best strategic or tactical decision, but it is not a moral one.

 

There isn't any anything system on Cybertron. The only arm of Cybertronian law and government is the one flinging an axe into Megatron's face.

 

So, what of the rest of the Decepticons on Earth? Hunt them all down and summarily execute them, too? What about Wheelie or Jetfire if he was still around? What about the ones that were being pushed around by Barricade. Dylan, too, huh? He got what he deserved?

 

If all decepticons were dead, then autobots were the only cybertronians left and lived on earth, What whould they do if human declared war to them?

 

How can they declare war to them?, When the Autobots saved their lives, if it wasnt for the Autobots the humans would be vanquished

 

Justification is a tricky thing with war. The bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima have already been mentioned, but there was also the Japanese-American internments and anti-Japanese propaganda at the time. Utterly abhorrent actions, but hey, we won so it was worth it, right?

There's got to be, like, 10 thousand real-life examples of one group of people attacking another group that just helped them.