you really can’t back that up

Nothing in the “so called” chosen one myth states that Unicron or anything/anyone like him was to be involved with the “so called” darkest hour.

And the hate plague actually posed a greater threat at the moment of the episode then Unicron did in the movie

So, the hate plague event was certainly a “darker hour” then the Unicron event

And again, Unicron was destroyed by the matrix opened by optimus in the comics

the matrix was to destroy Unicron one way or the other, in in either optimus or hotrods hands

 

Marvel Comics and Sunbow Cartoon are two completely separate things. Don't conflate the two, please.

And "The Chosen One" was not a myth. Not sure what gave you that impression. Optimus clearly knows he's not the one to light their darkest hour in the 1986 movie. He thought it was Magnus but instead it was Hot Rod. There could be some room for fudging in that did Optimus know he wasn't the one because he was dying? Or because the Matrix pre-ordained Hot Rod? We'll never really know, though...only that Hot Rod seems to be the only one who can open the Matrix to combat Unicron at that singular moment. So yes, when it comes to Unicron, only Hot Rod is supposed to defeat him.

And only Optimus was meant to defeat the Red Plague, apparently.

 

I’m not conflating the two at all, But considering the similarities and the fact that the part of one multi verse add to it the crappy universal singularity nonsense and it’s not something you can just dismiss

The evidence gave me that impression.The evidence given to us in the Show pretty much proves there is no such thing as a chosen one

And outside of a few statements in the show there’s no evidence whatsoever that there is a chosen one. And the evidence comes directly from the Cartoon

Actually he pretty much seem to know it wasn’t MagnusAs to himself maybe he knew he wasn’t the one because he was dieing

And its not like Hotrod had any faith that he was the chosen one either in season 3, so maybe Optimus doubted himself as hotrod did

you just contradicted yourself .It’s it’s either “seems” or “definite”, You can’t have it both ways

And as for the argument I would agree that the only thing you can back up is that it “seemed” that way in the film, What season three ultimately cast doubt on that complete concept, as in the events of the comics

Bottom line, the matrix was going to stop these threats in someone’s hands And I really don’t think it matters which of the two it would be. Most people feel the story mirrored the King Arthur story but in the bottom it not the exact same kind of event

Only king Arthur could pull the sword from the soul stone but more than one transformers was able to use the matrix.Not to mention that you contradicted yourself again

If there is a chosen one and it’s not a myth then it can one be one person and one event has not morethen one

So you can’t cherry pick and say hot rod was the “chosen” for one dark hour and Optimus was the “chosen” for an other dark hour

 

its the responsibility of whoever's holding the matrix to use the matrix against a matrix-level threat. i'd say "prime" but in the Sunbow canon its not apparent that every leader is named Prime. Especially if you take the Japanese anime sequels into account, which I do because 3 more seasons getting weird with it in Japan is much better in my mind than the failed abortion that is the rebirth. Off the top of my head the title of "Supreme Commander" or "Autobot Leader" is held by Alpha Trion, a few generics retroactively named "Primes" by AVP but not intended that way at the time of their creation, Optimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Rodimus Prime, Metalhawk, Fortress Maximus, Star Saber, Ginrai, Dai Atlas, and I'm blanking on others.

The religious blather might be just that, religious blather. Mantras and myths passed down from generation to generation of Autobots doing exactly what myths and traditions do, serving the practical purpose of informing people how to respond to a specific scenario. Til all are one and the darkest hour stuff make sure that no matter when or where they are the Autobots know what the Matrix can do in a crisis.

So since Unicron is a Matrix level crisis, whoever is holding it responds. Now the movie had the foreshadowing and the use of the Prime name leaning towards a chosen one kinda deal, but I feel like that means he's the chosen one to lead in Optimus Prime's wake more than the one to destroy Unicron. Especially since "Prime" is a term exclusive to OP and RP in G1 toon fiction. Ultra Magnus would have done it if he had it when they reached Unicron. Optimus Prime would have done it if he was still alive. Springer, Arcee, Kup, Bumblebee, Wheelie, Grimlock, Hound, Sunstreaker, Gears, Huffer or Erector would have opened the Matrix to destroy Unicron if they had it for some reason and Unicron was there. Unicron is aware of the Matrix due to his omniscient nature and the Matrix like he said is the ONE thing in the universe that can actually destroy him and steal his destiny to, eat everything everywhere? Even Unicron DID NOT want Ultra Magnus to come at him Matrix armed. He wasn't afraid of Hot Rod. He was afraid of the Matrix. Done deal.

 

how did we go from Moonbase I to Hot Rod's chosen one status and who else could or could not have used the matrix on unicron?

 

I'm not down with using whiny, crying wussy kids and complaining mothers as a rationalization for rewriting the chosen one prophecy. Also not down with using the comics to reinterpret the movie. They're completely different things.

 

I completely agree with your first comment.I wish they had it re-written either, but they did so we have to live with it

And I as I said before I’m not trying to mix or re-interpret the cartoon with the comic I’m just saying that it’s something to consider since in the end the cartoon went and altered the idea of a chosen one itself

 

Thank you! I really didn't want to type out an essay and you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

One can operate under retcons...but if you're discussing what would happen under the parameters of the 1986 movie in 1986, Optimus would not be able to open the Matrix and Hot Rod would have probably saved everyone way too late.

 

The thing is this doesn’t fit well with the “classic definition” of A retcon

This situation is more similar to a character in a TV show about a family and one of the kids finds out he was adopted in the 3rd season

Basically they told us it was a chosen one in the film and later in season three they tell us that wasn’t exactly true

Now if you want to talk writers intent, I would totally agree with you, they obviously altered what was originally intended about the idea of the chosen

But in story, this doesn’t really fit a retcon

You can’t exactly back that up because Optimus was never given the opportunity to open it in the film

 

You want ridiculously unrealistic levels of failing at visual perception? I've got two examples for you:

Rumble's eyesight is so bad, he can't even properly see a human who isn't much smaller than he himself is. (Fortunately, Shockwave has that magical "enhance" button.)


Meanwhile, Bumblebee, a robot that turns into a Volkswagen Beetle, is supposedly "too small" for human targeting systems.

 

But it's obvious in the movie that Optimus was never intended to open it in the first place - just "the Chosen One". So, we'll just have to have our difference in opinion since it's a chicken/egg discussion.

 

Ultra Magnus could not open the matrix because he did not use the finger holes.

 

And it’s obvious by season three that he was indeed also “A chosen one”, so as far as the story goes we can’t say he could not have done it because he wasn’t given the opportunity

Again if we were talking from the authors perspective you’re 100% right, Optimus was never intended to be able to open it, but the writers intent Isn’t relevant in a conversation like this when we’re discussing begin universe ramifications of how the story unfolds

 

Nice

 

Ha, the guy who created the matrix forever ago is like "Guys, there is no no chosen one. All you have to do is read the instructions that came with the thing. Put your fingers in the slots and pull. This isn't rocket science."

 

Haha. There's a little release latch in the middle finger hole. You flick it when you slide your finger in.

 

I saw burden hardest to bear as the matrix teaching hot rod a lesson on leadership. It let scourge use it to teach hot rod. No other decepticon could use it before in the movie and galvatron could not use it right before that. Notice once hot rod wanted it back and learned his lesson scourge got weaker and lost. The matrix used him to teach hot rod.

Then prime came back in the next episode! Lol!

As for moonbase one even as a kid I wondered why it was so easy to get in.

 

I can see that but it is a bit of a stretch, let’s say a skip but not a leap, because at least cartoon wise the matrix wasn’t shown to have a persona

’
No decepticon had it in the movie except galvatron

So out of the 2 cons we know tried to use it, 1 could

Not bad odds

I saw absolutely no evidence that he got weaker just that he got his ass kicked.

It wasn’t the next episode
The next was “ The Face of the Nijika" , in both story order and airdate order

 

Lazerbeak was one heck of a spy, and confident he was squawking after he left Moonbase 1. No bots heard that either.  

 

In space, no one hears you squawk.