Except, TDK also had a 52% drop coming off its first week despite rave reviews from viewers and critics. Conversely, titanic had crazy teenaged girls who went to see it 20+ times. That just doesn't happen these days.

 

Wait a minute...since when is me just giving some examples of how easily word of mouth can be spread translate into some personal isolated universe? And then you follow that up by putting words into my mouth stating that I said the movie would have made an additional 200 million in its opening weekend had it not been for word of mouth. W T F is your DAMAGE?  

This is so much what Im talking about in another thread right now ... PERFECT.

Oh, you stated 'male' instead of 'make'... I wonder if that was a Freudian slip..

And Transformers isn't??? And do you know how many times the Titanic as a movie has been made? There was nothing 'new' to be honest. What was refreshing was the historical research the director did to make this one but even then he took artistic liberties in certain aspects. The love story you bring up below and to some extent how the ship sank but thats not the issue, I digress.

I don't agree with the comment that TFs simply isn't (couldnt) be a cultural phenomenon. It has been for all of its fans from the beginning to 07.

Even by todays money grab only standards it would have blown everything away....

Oh and DeCrapio isnt all that....and I must be a really odd person because love stories as a main plot don't really interest me enough to compel me to go watch a movie.

I just don't get this. Why can't anyone see that if these movies had been of a quality similar to some of the huge blockbusters of the past, why isnt anyone willing to see what its success could have been? Am I asking for too much thinking out of the box here or is it really just nothing but the ticket receipts as the bottom line and nothing else to the fans?

 

Why, because being gay is something someone should be ashamed of or because the K key is next to the L key?

 

It doesn't matter what you or I think - unless we have the power to influence tens of millions of BO dollars. I think Titanic was sappy and Star Trek a bit over-rated, but these are merely my opinions against the spending power of billions. So even if you don't get DiCaprio's appeal (and I don't either), many women out there disagreed back in '98.

As for TF being a cultural phenomenon - it is not, period. As a casual fan, I want this film to do spectacularly - and even the neutral analysts are predicting a $400 million domestic gross at least. That is a huge achievement - and unprecedented, since ROTF will have the worst reviews of that exclusive club AND still manage to muscle its way in.

Only 8 films have achieved that feat - and only 1 has ever broken $600million. None of the others have come close, with TDK the only other to have cracked $500 million. Now THAT is a cultural phenomenon - Titanic, not TDK. Titanic had a #1 best selling novelization, a #1 OST and theme, and almost 4 months in the Top 10 domestic BO. These are the figures, these are the facts. I never liked that movie much, mind you, and like you, found it over rated. But back in the day, Titanic was the **** and nothing has come close since in terms of BO clout.

There are of course sci fi sagas like Star Trek & Star Wars. These have managed cult status through creating multiple universes and a boatload of characters to populate these worlds, as well as alternate timelines and stuff. Cultural phenomenons are very much a mainstream designation - you know something is when they're spoofed without overt references. TF hasn't quite reached that status, whether in animated or live action form.

Some of you are way too blinded by fandom.

 

Did you just call /me/ gay?????

 

Who accused whom of a Freudian slip?

 

Im a straight Woman...duhhhhhh I think *I* would notice 'male' in a sentence where it didn't belong pretty much as matter of course......

 

Hes just..punky looking, man. I mean yea ok, I can see why women would swoon over him but I just stare at him like 'woah, not my type..' I have rather discriminating taste when it comes to men. LOL And he ain't it. LOL

I can see where someone would think Titanic was sappy. The love story was the secondary main plot and I think could have been a bit less focused on in favor of some of the sub-plots and other characters. But even though, I did enjoy the movie (hell I watched it 3 times O_O, though in my defense   I don't own a copy of it. LOL). As for Star Trek...I dismissed it the second I found out that /those/ two were writing it...simple as that.

Its riding on its FX an nothing more. Its like...like...I can't think of anything to compare it too... but whatever it is, its like that....

Interesting that we disagree on the cultural phenomenon aspect of this. I personally feel strongly, that had more attention been paid to detail in all levels from the redesigns to the script to the directing it /had/ a chance to possibly become a cultural phenomenon.

Well you know what I will say to that. TFs had a chance to no, not break it, maybe not even meet it but it might have come something in the ballpark, again, had it been given to intelligent people to produce.

If I am blinded by the fandom its the other way.... (my attitude by default toward my fellow fan, long story, yes I need to break it, maybe I can on this board?...) and to answer what you said above; perhaps Im in a rather unique position from other fans. I did not discover the toys first then the show. I saw the show first and it was a fair bit after that that I discovered the toys (the true commercials for the toys ironically never aired with the cartoon in my area.. I think it was a few weeks after I started watching it that I finally saw a commercial for a toy while I was watching the show LOL). I thought the toys were for the show not the other way around. So, that gave me (and I know I can't be the only one) a rather unique perspective of it as far as sci fi universe and story potential goes. Maybe that will also give you an idea of how *I* see this movie project and why I think its so horrible. It squandered what might be its only opportunity to step up to the big boys as viable science fiction...and it got baybombed instead...

 

You are kidding right?

I think most of us have been to the movies enough over the years to know that opening weekend don't have anything to do with how people feel about a movie but how well the hype, marketing, and ad machine for a film did.

If we took this opening box office reflects the public mood toward a film then people totally loved Ang Lee's Hulk because it opened to $62.1 million or Indiana Jones 4 opened to $100 million and yet far too many people ended up agreeing with the South Park episode about the movie. Or what about Pirates 3 $114.7 million opening weekend?

And Paramount exit polling, please we weren't born yesterday. Ask any polling expert and they will tell you that how phrase a question will get the results you want. Plus Paramount would never ever release any information that didn't make it's films look good. Plus happy ending films will always get high marks if you ask the person right after they have seen the film. That's why we have so many happy ending in Hollywood to prop up the perception of mediocre to bad films.

Lets wait until next weekends numbers and then maybe we will have some sort of picture about if people are talking their friends and family into seeing the movie or if they discouraged them from seeing it. Second weekend seems to be where public opinion really kicks in.

 

TF2 and "legs"

Some numbers to think about..

Titanic was released 12/19/97. Initial reviews were moderate, most critics had said that Cameron spent way too much money on the movie. 200 million was absurd even for then. Post production delays, and a nervous studio pushed the movie from July to December. When that decision was made, insiders predicted "epic fail" as there was no way to get that much money from a December release.

The first weekend, Titanic made a paltry 28.6 million. Everyone was calling for the movie to be pulled, as it was not going to make money, and drag the studio into debt with it. Second weekend was 35 million. A shocker, as very few films made more on second weekend than first. The dailies were seen, it was not losing steam from weekend to weekend. Daily totals were as much as the weekend daily totals. People were seeing this movie, telling people, and seeing it again and again.

It spent 17 weeks at number 1, shattering records with it's unrelenting crawl. it was defeated by Lost in Space, which did a lackluster performance in the box office.

Titanic is proof that if you get a movie some people love, and will see over and over and over and over again it will make money. LOTS of money.

Incidentally, there have been over 30 incarnations of the RMS Titanic on screen and made for TV movies.

 

Absolutely agree with you on this one. I don't think Kurtzman/Orci are necessarily bad screenwriters - they did a decent enough job with JJ Abrams on both MI3 and Star Trek (over-rated, but still plotty) so I suspect it was Bay who turned ROTF into TF1 on steroids.

I'd argued before that the third film should add something new to the robots explosions formula, because after ROTF, there's only so much you can do with robots. Viable science fiction, as you put, is the word. TDK showed how mere comic book fodder can be turned to something dramatic. Granted, TF has less dramatic backstory than Batman - but the sci-fi potential is immense. Consider the questions of security hinted at by ROTF - what if more Autobots come to earth? What is more Decepticons convert to the Autobot cause as JetFire and Wheelie had? How would the TF population integrate into human society? These aren't difficult stuff to handle in a summer film - but they can help add a new edge to robo-overload.

 

Wait... days ago, people were saying that "public opinion" was going to nuke this movie dead by Thursday. Now 'wait a week?'

How long do we have to wait until people who have this vested interest in word of mouth failure coming true is deemed true or bullshit? Is 4th of july going to be the official test or are we gonna hear next monday "Oh it was a holiday weekend, that doesn't mean anything... it really did fail we gotta wait another week to see, If it beats Hp is the true standard."

 

1. ROTF
2. Public Enemies
3. Ice Age

2 and 3 will be close.

 

I don't know if beating Harry Potter is really good test of the film or not. We know how the public has a short attention span and Revenge of the Fallen will have been out for a while by that point. If Potter dethrones Transformers for the top spot I just don't see how that could be taken as a failure by Transformers.

This weekend though is an excellent test for the film. It's the holiday weekend which means busy theaters and the new films are a kids film and a rated R film so if Revenge of the Fallen drops less that 50% you've got a very good argument for the general public is feeling good about the movie. If it drops off more than 60% then perhaps the general public isn't so taken with it.

Of course even if the film does exceptionally well this weekend or it take a nose dive I'm sure people will still be fighting over what it means.

 

Will probably hold on to #1 to HP comes.

 

I think we all expect HP will blow it out of the water. As it should as HP is the next summer blockbuster.

I just think there is a lot of equivocating and justifying numbers to 'mean' things that they really don't mean to defend positions.

 

so very true

 

X-Men Origins: Wolverine is a box office success and Fox will surely make a sequel, but the movie is a disappointment for both critics and fans, thus meaning the next budget will be a SURE waste of money.
If Paramount and Dreamworks are just watching ROTF's income, instead of critics and fandom reactions, they'll waste tons of money for a bombing film since the beginning.

 

but the fandom isn't completely blasting the movie with their reactions, a vast number of them did in fact enjoy it. you, among others, did not like the franchise and probably never will, but what makes YOU right and everyone else wrong?

 

To be fair, that film did get terrible reviews.