Season 3 Dinobots - A Saturday Theory

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Backscatter, Mar 17, 2007.

  1. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    I was watchng my TF Move Laser Discs (both Bi-lingual & Japanese) today. Wanted to compare colors with some of the latest TFTM DVDs. Anyway, I noticed something.

    Anyone who remembers what a serious fighting force the Dinobots were in G1 Season 1 & 2 might wonder why the Dinobots became little more than comic relief in Season 3.

    My theory is simple, Season 3 Autobots.

    It starts in the Movie. Blurr: Nice Dino! Hot Rod (after getting saved by them) calling them "Bozos". His opinion didn't change as Rodimus. On Junkion, Grimlock gets kissed and most likely got/gets laughed at.

    Nobody in Sesaon 3 or the Movie (Once Optimus died) took the Dinobots seriously. Grimlock tried, but got more laughs for the effort.

    Wheeljack had the gift of getting the best out the Dinobots through reason. Optimus Prime had mutual respect with Grimlock. etc.

    Well, making friends with Wheelie didn't help the poor Dinobots either.

    It's sad, but I think that's why the Dinobots took up fishing. No repect even after Grimock built Computron or saved the Universe in "Call of the Primitives".

    If Rodimus Prime had not thought of them as clowns, things might have been different.

    Oh well, it's all history now.
     
  2. Katamari Prime

    Katamari Prime Hassan Chop! TFW2005 Supporter

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    Interesting, hopefully we have to get the Three seasons on DVD to help comfirm this, But your ideas seem sound.
     
  3. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    I think your assessment is right on. That change took place at the movie.

    I can remember leaving the theater (at the tender age of 12), and talking with my friends about it; how they suddenly make the dino's a bunch of total wimps, after they'd been an unstoppable hard-as-nails force up to that point.

    Even when afforded an opportunity to unload on Unicron (a scene that could have been awesome), it came across as a goof. Meh.
     
  4. Robogeek28

    Robogeek28 Who're you calling a geek?

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    I always hated how the Dinobots were treated during and after the movie, they just weren't the Dinobots anymore.
     
  5. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    I will always blame the movie and season 3 for killing the G1 cartoon.
     
  6. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    Thanks all for the postive feedback. I believe if season 3 had been wrtten just a little better for the Dinobots, today we might have seen more of them as Classics. Back in the day when they were really popular Dinobots were appearing in things like Lite Brite sets. I even have a G1 Transformers lamp, were Snarl and Swoop (but not Grimlock) appear on the lamp shade in Robot mode. Those were the days. Skywarp was making more appearances on TF products than Starscream.

    Anyway, I haven't learned Japanese yet, but it was interesting sitting through the entire Japanese only TFTM Laser Disc. Much more yelling. You can hear Daniel's sobs crying over Optimus. Even Megatron carries on more in his first meeting with Unicron. Starscream really screams while being killed. Many scenes that were silent in the English version also have spoken words in Japanese. This is one language I've got to learn. Oh and as for color comparison, the Laser Discs are darker, but at least Hot Rod doesn't come off as being pink.
     
  7. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    Yeah it's disappointing that the Dinobots were essentially turned into Autobot pets as opposed to the way they were portrayed in Seasons 1 & 2 as an actual combat team. There's an episode in Season 3 where Sludge & Snarl are talking to a couple of Autobots while cowering like bad dogs, and if I recall correctly, one of them is even patted on the head during the conversation. The way the writers turned them into pure comic relief during & after the movie still bugs me to this day.
     
  8. Fairlady_Z

    Fairlady_Z Official Voice of Flareup

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    Optimus kept the Dinobots in a "closet." :thumbdown  How does that equal mutual respect?:inquisiti  Grimlock was often at odds with Optimus Prime. He disobeyed orders, got jealous of Op, and though he would be a better leader. (Like stupid Grimlock could even beat the great Optimus Prime. Dream on, Grimlock.:rolleyes2  )

    On the other hand, all the Dinobots, especially Grimlock, respected Rodimus. Rodimus inspired a loyalty from them that Optimus never did.:thumb  Grimlock acted as Rodimus's body guard in a similar way Ironhide did for Optimus.

    The Dinobots even back in season 1 were used for rediculous comic relief. The main difference from season 3 was they were shown as fearsome fighters as well. The movie continues with this portrayal (though hanging around Wheelie didn't help.:tongue: ) Grimlock is also in character in FFOD. It's only AFTER FFOD that the Dinobots, even Grimlock, don't get treated with much respect from the writers of the show. Up till then they were still the same butt-kickin' lovable but stupid giants. It's really only episodes like Grimlock's New Brain and Madman's Paradise that Grimlock comes off as some weird buffoon who has suddenly developed some odd attachment to Daniel.:inquisiti  As for the other Dinobots missing a lot in season 3, that DID start with the movie which is just another sad example of "these toys are too old so let's forget about 'Characters X, Y, & Z' and hope the kids don't notice." (Dream on, Hasbro.:throw )

    That's my 2 cents anyway. And I do agree that's its a shame that way some of the season 3 writers treated the Dinobots. They really are a cool team.
     
  9. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    From a backstage perspective, I just figure the writers wanted more comic relief and felt that the dumb dinos would work well in that capacity.

    But if you want to explain it in show terms, my theory would be that it has less to do with how they were treated, and more to do with the way they were made. Let's face it, Wheeljack wasn't exactly 100% reliable when it came to making things. Combine that with the fact that the Dinobots were constructed without proper sparks like the Aerialbots and Stunticons, and I'd say that after about twenty years or so, they'd just start to degrade a little. I'd imagine that their systems would just start working poorer and their already diminished mental capacity would shrink a bit. And considering that all the Autobots used them for was hitting things really hard, I can't see them spending a lot of time and resources keeping them running at their maximum level (especially since the decrease in intelligence would make them easier to control).
     
  10. Radioactive Ravage

    Radioactive Ravage Ancient

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    Optimus hid the Dinobots in a closet because... well, let me quote the great Dr. Smoov...

    "It was your idea to build giant fire-breathing dinosaurs... and then not give them enough brains to tell their head from their ass?"

    Rodimus Prime brought a stupidity with him that spread to the Dinobots and pretty much every battle he was ever in. That's why the Dinobots were comic relief, because Rodimus didn't have enough brains to lock them in a closet. If Optimus Prime hadn't, they probably would've had the same role in Seasons 1 and 2.
     
  11. llamatron

    llamatron Shut up, Nigel. TFW2005 Supporter

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    And people complain about Beast Machine's personality changes!

    I do agree and it's a similar situation to what happened to Inferno in Beast Wars. Started off as a crazy badass mofo, began to be turned into comic relief, got killed off in a blaze of glory and then for some unknown reason resurrected and had his character completely ruined. HAHA INFERNO GOT TURNED INTO A PANCAKE LOL. Ergh. Weak sauce.
     
  12. Jazz1979

    Jazz1979 Well-Known Member

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    True. The mighty Dinobots were degraded since the movie. Not only did they often shrink but also not powerful autobots anymore. IMO Season 3 mostly starred Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Springer, Wheelie, Blurr, Arcee, and Grimlock. Sometimes you have seen Blaster and Perceptor, Superion and Defensor, but they skipped most of the old heroes from season 1 and 2.
    I always didn't like most of the season 3 designs for being too spacy.
    Galvatron was one of the big exception.
     
  13. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    Well, I had been thinking of the time when Grimlock & company had been tricked by Megatron into attacking Optimus Prime for Leadership. Grimlock learned that Optimus was stronger than he looked and wiser too. I believed that in exchange by the end of that episode the Dinobots had earned respect with Optimus and the other Autobots. Oh, and as for Grimlock being a bodyguard for Rodimus, he wasn't a volunteer, he was assigned. He was more happy for getting into the action again than in protecting Rodimus Prime.

    Switchblade, thanks for the new perspective. I always wondered how Wheeljack got the Dinobots funtional without Sparks. My theory on that was that maybe the Autobots had a few Sparks on hand, the way Starscream stole the Sparks of the Combaticons and put them in new bodies. Maybe the Autobots had a few blank Sparks for just such an event. Of course that reserve was gone by the time of the Aerialbots and Stunticons. We didn't see the full construction sequence of the Dinobots and that early in the series, Sparks weren't really a confirmed thing yet with Transformers. Finally, a twenty year span in a Transformers lifespan is less than an eyeblink time by human standards, so I don't see how Dinobots could begin to degrade in as little as 20 years, maybe 20,000+ though, but Bots and Cons can be rebuilt. :D  However, your theory leads to yet another question.

    If the Dinbots were beginning to degrade, were the Season 3 Autobots just going to let the Dinobots rot? They had the resources to build that stupid Funeral Ark. However, then again, Rodimus didn't put much effort into protecting the Ark & Teletraan 1 either. So maybe he was letting the "clown Dinobots" go by the wayside.
     
  14. Fairlady_Z

    Fairlady_Z Official Voice of Flareup

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    True. They did gain some mutual respect for each other after that episode. At least, Op did for Grimmy. Not sure it took as well the other way around, considering the Dinobots went rogue again in Desertion of the Dinobots. Still, the Dinobots did always come through when Op really needed them.


    Yes, he was assigned though Rodimus probably wouldn't have taken Grimlock with him if he didn't trust Grimlock to his job well. Yes, Grimlock wanted to see some action. Still, doesn't change the fact that Grimlock was loyal to Rodimus in a way he never was to Optimus. I figue the Dinobots loyalty to Rodimus is partly due to his friendship with Kup, and we know how much the Dinobots like Kup. Grimlock probably made Kup and Hot Rod honorary Dinobots or something. Rodimus treated the Dinobots well. If he did make a mistake it was in giving Grimmy too much authority, you don't give a dinosaur with a pea size brain the task of overseeing important levers and switches (unless you want the to become supegeniuses and create a new combiner team for you.:wink: )

    Hey, we agree on something! I had practically the same theory.

    I don't think the Dinobots were beginning to degrade. If they were, Ratchet & Wheeljack would have upgraded them long before such a thing could even become a problem for Rodimus to worry about. As for the Ark and not protecting it, my theories -

    1. The Autobots resources were simply spread too thin. They were trying to deal with simlutaneous attacks on both Earth and Cybertron. The mini-bots were the only ones left.

    2. Did the Autobots have any way of knowing the Cons were buliding Trypticon in the first place until it was too late? And how were they to know Trypticon would stop by the Ark on the way to Metroplex?

    3. Was Powerglide's pre-emptive attack somehow reponsible for him accidentally leading Trypticon to the Ark?

    4. After Autobot City/Metroplex was built what stategic value did the Ark still serve really? Yes, there were sentimental reasons to protect it, but it's technology was 4 million years out of date anything useful (aside from Teletran who couldn't be moved obviously) was probably already moved to Autobot City anyway. Heck, Optimus may not have even considered the Ark a primary potential target anymore leaving the Ark to have a "skelton crew" for years before 2006.

    5. Leader delagate responsibility. Rodimus may have had his hands full on Cybertron. Isn't more likely that whoever was in left change of Autobot City or Earth Operations assigned someone to look after the Ark (in this case the mini-bots)?

    6. Don't underestimate mini-bots. They're tougher than they look.;) 
     
  15. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    Okay, a side topic. I would never underestimate Mini-Bots. Ah, didn't Optimus Prime have Omega Supreme always nearby the Ark? Now that would have made a good fight. Omega Supreme VS Trypticon! Rodimus decided to use Mini-Bots. He never brought the fallen Bots to be fixed by Teletraan 1, nor did he invite the Junkions to Earth to try to do repairs. If resources got thin, it was also from Funeral Ark building. It would have been a really good "feel good" episode to bring back some of the fallen heroes. Hasbro might have cashed in on reissues, or "upgrade figures". But NOOOO! The extra firepower might have defended the Ark with resources to spare. FFOD really wiped out the last of the best of Seasons 1 &2. Ya know, Omega Supreme didn't have such a big role in Season 3 either.

    BTW, back to Dinobots, I really don't think they were on the downgrade. They were just under used, with really nobody taking them seriously anymore. Also yes, I can see how Grimlock would see Rodimus as a friend through Kup and Hot Rod, more so than he ever was with Optimus Prime. So we do agree on some things. :wink: 
     
  16. Fairlady_Z

    Fairlady_Z Official Voice of Flareup

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    Poor Omega Supreme. Maybe he's the one that got put out to pasture.:wink:  Maybe he blew apart after one too many one way trips to Cybertron. Omega vs. Trypticon would have been awesome. And I think before Omega showed in season two up poor Bumblebee was left to guard the Ark alone once or twice.

    Back to the Dinobots - I always wondered why Grimlock got the attention while the other four faded into obscurity like so make season 1 & 2 characters. Even if he was portrayed as a buffoon half the time at least the writers were using him. What made Grimlock so special though that he got spared when the others didn't I wonder? At least Snarl got a line or two in Dark Awakening after being cut out of the movie.
     
  17. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    various touches on stuff:

    I enjoyed the tough smack-talkin' Dinobots of season 1 and 2 more than the demure clownish season 3 versions.

    on respect issues: If we can assume Hot Rod and Kup befriended the Dinobots before the events of the movie (and it appears likely), it makes sense that they would have a more cordial and respectful attitude toward Rodimus once he became leader, compared to the Autobots who kept trying to rein them in and only dealt with them when they wanted something dangerous broken.

    On mental degradation: As someone who has seen people lose mental faculties over time, I can say that it usually happens slowly enough that it's often not noticed until it becomes a problem. Considering there's a twenty year gap between season two and the movie, that's a slow enough decline that perhaps no one really noticed, especially since they became less dangerous to the other Autobots, and they weren't really THAT much dumber.

    I suppose it's also possible Wheeljack or someone tinkered with them at some time in an attempt to make them more docile.
     
  18. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    theres a fanfic floating out there addressing this issuse :) 

    yah, the dinos, specifically grimlock were turned into comedic relief. grimlock in particular basically took on bumbles role as kid friendly character, despite wheelie hanging around. ugh, wheelie.

    my fave part tho is in grimmys new brain where grimmy turned down the dinos invite to fishing heheh and slag went 'what he say???'.
     
  19. Gnaw

    Gnaw Banned

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    And now, the Dinobots are teh hardcore. The Shockwave Spotlight was awesome. I'll have to re-read it, but did they all sacrifice themselves?
     
  20. Katamari Prime

    Katamari Prime Hassan Chop! TFW2005 Supporter

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    They were all there, so most likely, but I wouldn't exactly say sacrifice, more like awaiting recovery. Grimlock's contingancy plan wasn't without it's problems.
     

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