Scenes that don't measure up VFX wise

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Leadfoot, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot The Strongest.

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    There are some on this board who think that the movies will be unwatchable in a few years due to advances in CG animation making what's already been done look obsolete. While I couldn't disagree more, it is something I'd like to discuss.

    For one thing, the vast majority of the CG looks fucking real. I mean, real. It's a simple threshold crossed by the VFX teams at which point they successfully have fooled the human eye, end of story, and at no point do further advancements do anything to take away from that.

    For another, we've seen big movie franchises receive digital remastering and even heavy added CG effects scenes 20+ years after the fact. If there is anything to be improved upon, the same can be done for Transformers. The market will certainly be there for it, and years down the road I can easily imagine improved/remastered releases of all 3 films including theatrical runs and new BluRays with the improved CG work.

    At present, I can only think of a couple of instances in which the robots don't look totally real. I'm open to people offering up more suggestions for the rest of us to take a look at and judge whether or not they live up to the photorealistic standard.

    The ones I can think of are Jazz in mission city: something just didn't look right about his color; it looks too solid and without enough battle damage or light reflection and could surely be improved upon.

    The other is the Optimus/Megatron/Fallen battle in Egypt. Something about the colors looked a bit too glossy, and even Bay has admitted that that sequence was rushed out under the gun.

    Does anyone else have any scenes or moments that don't look realistic enough to them?
     
  2. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Only the one that you mentioned yourself. Final ROTF fight.

    It looked like a videogame cutscene. A REALLY GOOD cutscene but still odd.
     
  3. zark225

    zark225 Well-Known Member

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    To me the one part in the forest battle at the beggining right after Prime grabs Megatron's leg and hits it and then knees him. Starscream comes flying in and is hit and then grabbed by Optimus. Something about the way Screamers body bends... just looks odd.
     
  4. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

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    For some reason, I felt that the robots looked more real in TF1... I think the ROTF models were updated and more detailed, for sure, and maybe it just has to do with the environments... but the robots in TF1 were all shiny and metallic often due to lighting around them. And that just looked a tad more convincing.
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Much as you said, the final fight in ROTF looked... a little odd to me.

    The only other thing I'd change is replace the real-life prop models of Frenzy and BB from the first model with the CGI mdoels. God those stuck out so bad, especially Frenzy. The dude was on crack constantly, jittering and fidgeting, and he is unnaturally rock solid there. And for some reason, again, the CGI model looked more real than the tangible prop. wha?
     
  6. seeker311

    seeker311 The Collector

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    to me it was when Jetfire is walking through the plane graveyard; looked very awkward, very digitized and this was on Bluray

    Also, when the twins are acting like ninjas before going into the temple; the neon green and orange did not look good against a bright sandy desert
     
  7. Baird

    Baird bug-stomper

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    Most of the cgi in ROTF didn't have that photo-real sheen to it that the first movie's had, as if they were rushed. I also felt that the robots seemed too flyaway in their movements. TF1's cgi will hold up the way the cg i T2 and Jurassic Park has held up for the most part. I do notice odd bits though that aren't as refined (Blackout when Epps is looking up at him and he produces his chest-gun for example). I think some of the Optimus cgi in his Megatron fight didn't look quite as real too, especially the cgi truck as he transforms, the difference from the real truck that appeared just before has always been fairly easy to spot.
     
  8. VaderPrime1

    VaderPrime1 Prepare for termination!

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    When Optimus hits Megatron with the big tree in the forest battle it looks cartoony or that there is something odd about the frame rate.
     
  9. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    It's one of those speedup-slowdown effects they do in movies.
     
  10. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    The animation seemed choppier in ROTF in places (such as Optimus vs. Galloway at NEST).
     
  11. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    True, and mainly it probably looks that way because it was handled over at Digital-Domain. If all the shots were tackled by ILM, it would have been beautiful.
     
  12. Santoanderson

    Santoanderson Well-Known Member

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    There were a few scenes in both movies where the characters were not rendered using Motion Blur, and they should've been. The one that comes to mind is in the first film, Ironhide and Ratchet are about to escort same to the statue-topped building. We have a pair of shots where Ironhide says "Sam! We will protect you!" followed by "Sam! Get to the building!" and Ratchet follows "Move!" Both of those shots look a little stop-motiony.

    Motion blur takes a long time to render, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was a last minute/insert shot and ILM/DD didn't have the time.

    Other things - ummmm, the computer controlled camera shots are way easy to spot, and a little distracting, especially when they follow a gritty handheld shot. CG humans were obvious, and not only because of the danger of the shot. They were animated in a way that was a little too cartoony, like when Skorponok skewers Scutt Farkus and when Megatron flicks Michael bay.

    Overall they look great.
     
  13. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Look at the history of film.

    When Star Wars came out that just had to be the pinnacle of special effects. Back then you couldn't have predicted the CGI revolution in film. Yet we are asked to predict how special effects will advance to prove how the effects in the Transformers films will be out dated at some point.

    Until human technology stops advancing then film makers are just going to keep finding ways to use new things to make their films look a bit better than the older films.
     
  14. ectoneon

    ectoneon Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the problem is that we got way more robot close up's in the first film than in ROTF most of the time we saw the robots they were in motion. Take a look at the hanger scene in rotf-
    Prime looks absolutely real, and it is obvious they spent a lot of time on it. Compare that to big battle...and things were more rushed.

    Ones that really stick out to me are the previously mentioned jazz in mission city. Especially when megaton flies up and grabs him. Also the autobot arrival scene-Prime looks real...but the others look pretty fake while they transform. Also...this isn't in how real they look, but I hate when ratchet transforms in that scene. Freeze frame it-Ratchet's front wheels seriously just fly up into his shoulders.
     
  15. trex5000

    trex5000 Autobot

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    the part that really bothers me in that scene is galloway's voice over dub, its sound quality is edited poorly, doesn't match the sound of the previous scene, and its like nails on a chalk board to me
     
  16. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    This.

    I respectfully disagree. :)  Ignoring the issues of "Blah Galloway's a dick", "oh, they reused that one shot", "the Autobots are just sitting there" and everything, I found that scene to be one of the best, visual effects-wise, that is. The facial animation on Optimus was leaps and bounds better than the first film, and he looked freaking tangible in that sequence. Nice interactions, smooth, fluid movement and fantastic lighting effects.

    Wait, are you saying that Digital Domain worked on the final "Power-Up Prime vs. The Fallen" sequence? I don't think they did. (If you aren't referring to that, then feel free to ignore the rest of my post). I'm not trying to say that I am a professional visual effects artist (yet...) or that I worked on RotF at either ILM or Digital Domain, but I really doubt that Digital Domain worked on the last few shots of the "Power-Up Prime vs. Fallen" sequence that you're referring to. I've researched this topic extremely thoroughly, and I haven't come across anything - either visual or written - that supports the proposed theory of Digital Domain working on that sequence. Their work and contributions to the films have been pretty well documented. Yes, technically, I don't know for 1000% certainty on the matter, but I strongly believe that they didn't. Although I could be wrong. :)  Again, this post was written under the assumption that you thought Digital Domain worked on that final battle scene. If that's not what you meant, then I'm just ranting for the sake of ranting. :D 

    As for the topic, yes, I found RotF's VFX work (for the most part, although there are exceptions) to be slightly poorer quality than the first film. But I am NOT knocking their work. There are hundreds of extremely talented artists on these films who put nothing but their best work into it. I think you can chalk up any poorer quality shots to the fact that the work load increase substantially between films. Not really in terms of quantity of shots, but of complexity and overall that shots had MORE ROBOTS and MORE STUFF going on. They had to rush some scenes to pump them out faster, and I believe that they were getting bogged down in how much they had to do. Understaffed and whatnot too. But still, there are PLENTY of shots that are freakishly photoreal, in my opinion. Optimus' transformation in the NEST base (when the camera tracks around him), Optimus' conversation with Galloway, most of the forest battle, close-ups of Wheelie, close-ups of Bumblebee and especially that one (or two) shots of the Sam & Co. running up the door of Petra. Yeah, those two wide-shots, steady, panning, of Sam and the humans with The Twins and 'Bee walking up to it. Bumblebee just looks so integrated with his environment in those shots there (in my opinion).

    I can't wait to see the work ILM and DD has in store for us for Dark of the Moon! :D 
     
  17. brawl 56

    brawl 56 Aw..crap!

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    ^I can sign this. And here's why:

    Exaaactly! And in the forest-fight scene, when the Autobots arrive, you can see, that the twins are just put on the screen without merging them right into it.
    You don't see it very good, but on screenshots even more. That kinda sucks.
     
  18. legolas grof

    legolas grof Cardboard Industries CEO

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    in ironhide's slow motion heilix scene, brawl fires some missles at him that don't have shadows. lol In rotf when long haul is about to hop out of the ship to go and revive megatron he dosn't have a shadow. and in the final scene where optimus and sam are standing on the deck of the carrier, the ocean curves up because of the lense of the camera
     

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