Samsung and Apple's patent clash heads to trial by jury

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by tikgnat, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong. TFW2005 Supporter

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    BBC News - Samsung and Apple's patent clash heads to trial by jury

    I think thats worthy of a full quote.

    Anyway, wowzers. This is a pretty big deal... thoughts?
     
  2. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    Apple's one of those companies that has cried wolf so many times I can't believe them anymore. And I'm typing this on my iPad, which I might add is nowhere near as good as my S3.

    Apple, one of these days, has to accept that other people simply do a better job than they do. It's an unfortunate reality for them, but there's a reason people buy Android. There's a reason other companies use Android. And it's not because it's free. It's also very very good and open to user interpretation, which is a lot more than iOS can claim to do. Apple has yet to accept that they are the Nintendo of the Touch Screen Market. They'll always have their loyal fan base who love the simple, "brain-dead" approach to user interfaces who are willing to accept the machines limitations. Apple will always have the wacky inventions which work (Apple has its sleek, no seams anywhere approach, like how Nintendo made motion control for the Wii). Now Apple has to accept that Android has done what Playstation did: it's a stronger, faster machine, but it's not as 'cute' and 'd'aww' inducing as Nintendo's products. Playstation attracts gamers above the age of 10, just like how Android attracts people who can use technology with some degree of proficiency and don't like being limited. Yet, Nintendo still makes a killing on its machines, without the crying and whining whenever a competitor releases a new product that Apple does.

    Of course, there could be a patent dispute that's actually valid, in which case I would believe both have stolen from each other. Much of the smartphone/tablet technology is evolving so fast that what was once a company secret is now just an industry standard which has to used under "fair and reasonable terms". The law simply can't catch up with the pace of the market, and hence we get cases like this.

    I think Apple has just gone and called up their legal department solely as a show of force, and Samsung is holding its own and even countering Apple's claims (seriously, Apple drafts with Sony logos? That's just low Apple...), so now Apple has realised this won't be such an open and shut case. Now it's blown to proportions which this case never really deserved in the first place if you ask me.

    Also, bounce back scrolling, that was a natural extension of the scrolling function. By setting the screen as a roller (it scrolls like you are spinning a horizontal drum), this mimics the billboards at shopping malls which can scroll between ads, which naturally bounce back at the end (it's a natural reaction, as the billboard must stop its advertisement from scrolling when it's reached the next ad, and this invokes a bounce back due to the force necessary to counter the motion of the advertisement). That wasn't originally Apple's genius, it was derived from the mechanical limitations of machinery (in this case, the inevitable bounce back when a pulley is stopped), so no one legitimately came up with it (indeed, it is still considered an unavoidable error in machinery that should ideally be minimised, not a 'feature' by any means).

    As for the idea of one screen with a button, this was around since touch screens were invented. The buttons were always seeking to be diminished (units like the HTC Desire Z actually marketed the physical keyboard as a feature, showing how the trend had long been to remove buttons, and this was also true for the Xperia PlayPhone), and this was inevitably going to lead to three buttons, then two buttons, then one button. It was a gradual transition as the general public assimilated into the touch screen user base. It's not like Apple just invented one button touch screen machines, the products with touch screens were always tending towards eliminating physical buttons.

    Ultimately, while Apple may have had a legitimate claim, they have shot themselves in the foot by crying wolf so many times in the past. Right now, they are immediately considered suspicious solely because of the large number of cases they file which fail. I don't believe Samsung would be so stupid as to leave themselves open to such a lawsuit, nor do I believe Apple would to Samsung's. Either both take a hit and HTC celebrates, or this case is a win for the lawyers and no one else.

    [/2cents]
     
  3. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    I hope Samsung crushes them. I can't stand Apple. At all. I owned an iPhone, I now own a Samsung Droid Charge. It blows the iPhone out of the water. They can't even compare. And Android is so much like a PC OS, that it is actually fully functional without being bogged down by stupidity like iOS. Apple's a joke compared to what's out there.

    I will give Apple this much... The simplicity of their iOS is great for new users when it comes to smartphones. Android can be overwhelming at first.
     
  4. SearchmanDS

    SearchmanDS Well-Known Member

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    Now now. At least Nintendo lets other people play with their stuff, and even encourage it(though designers seem to be too lazy to take advantage of it, but that's a tangent for another discussion). Apple on the other hand is the selfish kid that wants nobody touching their stuff :lol .
     
  5. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Samsung made me a believer with the S2, now they're making me a believer with their computers.

    Can't stand Apple, these days.
     
  6. chrisr291

    chrisr291 Master of the Unknown

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    Companies sue one another all the time, what makes this one different?
    For instance, Motorola wants 2.25% for every xBox sold. That is pretty significant.

    If Apple can prove in court that Samsung stole their property, Samsung should pay.

    If you market Spiderman, I make Manspider, you'd be upset lol. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
     
  7. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Yup, something unnecessary in a device that is primarily used for lifestyle and not launching rockets to Mars. I bought the Sony Android Tablet a few months back and returned it. Yes, it is open-ended, like my laptop, but as a result it's also clunky and glitchy. I tried my cousin's Samsung Galaxy and realized that it acted the same, though he didn't seem to see it.

    There are some things that I don't want to behave like a PC: my phone, tablet, and game consoles. I don't need to program them, hack them or expose them to hacking. I just want to make my life easier with them. Thus far, I haven't felt limited with my iPad, save for one thing: emmulators. But since I own a Dingo handheld system, that's element is easily covered (and with tactile controls).

    No, I don't have Apple stickers on my car, I don't drink coffee with my Mac Book, while crossing my legs more than they actually should be allowed. I just don't think that Android is that much better (not by a long shot).
     
  8. bignick1693

    bignick1693 Maximal

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    I'm feel the same way. My brothers has a droid and i understand it. But all the stuff it does is what I'm not looking for. I don't need widgets because i would not use them. I like my music and playing some games. My iPhone does that. I wish it had emulators but oh well having the support of epic games (infinity blade) makes me satisfied.
     
  9. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    Except that units running Android sell for around $400 while the iPad is selling at $550+, even at its lowest grade model.

    Android also packs more features. Even if you don't use them, why not have them, when it's also more cost effective? Why pay more for a lot less?

    In the case of the iPad, less is definitely NOT more. And I'm typing this on an iPad. When I try to edit my posts, the selection of text is crap. But Android on my Asus Eee Pad works with arrow keys to allow easy user-friendly access. And I have access to home and end keys on my Eee Pad, which are universally accepted to be time-saving keys (hence being standard on all qwerty keyboards). I also get my shortcuts in my modifier keys, CTRL+A, CTRL+C, CTRL+V which are so effective at time saving that even Apple's own Macs have their equivalent shortcuts. Apple pioneered shortcuts in touchpads on laptops, giving four and five fingered gestures, showing they personally believe in the use of shortcuts for time saving, but then Apple deliberately leaves out shortcuts in the iDevices. My Eee Pad and the Galaxy Tab are both marketed with their keyboards as features to showcase the seamless integration of touch and physical control, yet iPad's keyboard gets almost no attention, even from Apple, leaving the vast majority lacking any sort of shortcuts on iOS. And though iPhone's one button has always been marketed as being sleek, the lack of a back button is a huge setback to user-friendliness, which Samsung and HTC don't suffer from. Apple also decided to actually deliberately hurt iPad users, choosing to leave out Wifi Hotspot from the iPad, even though the bigger battery allows the iPad to work as a hotspot far more effectively than the iPhone.

    The iPad is a way of limiting yourself and spending more money. While anyone can claim to like any interface over another (hell, even Android users argue over Sense vs TouchWiz), it's a numerical fact that the iPad sells for a much higher price, and comes with fewer features.

    You might feel satisfied with iPad, but Android can do all of the stuff iPad can, and more. You would feel satisfied with Android as well if you just downloaded the apps you liked and set the interface to what you wanted (Android mail notifications to work like iOS's notifications, or something else like that). It's just that people become complacent with the iPad and are unwilling to accept the advent of open technology in the form of Android. For a less tech headed analogy, try telling anyone driving an automatic car to learn a manual car. They'll come up with all sorts of excuses, but the fact is all professionals and people who know cars use manuals, as they have better performance, and come thousands of dollars cheaper than automatics. This is just the same as iOS users. They know they are limited by their machine, but when you tell them to learn Android, they come up with all sorts of excuses, like "I wish it had emulators but oh well with the support of epic games....makes me satisfied" (quoted from above post). They know the limitations (no emulators) but try to justify their machine (oh, it has Infinity Blade...that completely justifies the $550 I spent on this machine...). But professionals and anyone who knows tech use Android; like a manual car, it's got better performance, and come cheaper.

    And for the record, I don't like either. I prefer my laptop, which is currently booting Windows and Linux. I'd boot Mac but the machines are too expensive and out of my price range for their specs (though I'd be happy to receive a Pro any day). But I'd still go Android any day over iOS; it's got more features, it's cheaper, and if I don't need I features I simply don't use them, but at the end of the day I've still got the features waiting in the wings, and a lot of extra cash in my pocket.

    To get back to the topic, the suit that Apple has, if they progress further with this they will end up paying Samsung for the thefts Apples has performed (or paying Sony, due to the drafts of Apple stuff with Sony Logos on them). Sure, they might get something from Samsung, but they'll then end up paying that back for their own mistakes. I have little doubt that Apple would be forced to pay given they have drafts with other companies clearly marked on them, and the money they can get from Samsung won't cover that, if they get any at all. In the end, the case is just going to end up at a dead end, as with all Apple cases, because their lawyers soon have to convince them to get off their high horse, and realise that they've done what they claim everyone else has been doing to them, and then everyone goes back to hush-hush mode again. It's been the way most Apple cases have gone recently, and I don't see that trend changing any time soon, at least not until Apple fundamentally changes their attitude. Be Nintendo, Apple. Be realistic.
     
  10. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    The thing that got me by the balls with the Apple shit is the "easy" integration of music around my house and in general.

    I have iTunes match, and my music is available everywhere. If I'm listening to something in the car and I get home and turn on Apple TV, it remembers what I have just been listening to. The same applies to digital movies and TV (including digital movies I get from buying BluRays). If I rip a friend's CD at work, it becomes available on my phone in less than 3 minutes.

    I know Google has a similar service (because I have it), but the universal integration is nowhere as functional. Not even close.

    It's also too scatterbrained. Some games work on one handset, but not another (of the same generation). It's like having a PS3 where games work for one model and not another. Too much drama for a lifestyle product.

    Sorry bud, I don't feel that I'm paying for less, and I owned them both, and the only thing I got out of my Sony was the ability to plug in my PS3 controller and play emmulator games with it (which I did for a few minutes and never returned to it).

    The other thing I liked about the Android was the ability to return apps, something I wish Apple would employ.

    Otherwise, I love watching 1080p movies on the retina display. Not to mention reading comics on that display looks better than actually buying the physical copies, lol. Nothing I have seen on another tablet comes close to that (nor displaying games at that resolution). I also love that I can play an RPG at work on my iPhone and then kick back on the iPad at home and continue it with the automatic cloud save. I edit HD videos on the Avid app and output them to my PC to finish up edits. We use them as clapboard for our commercial shoots and the app sends emails to my work email with all of the best-shot selections, which I can incorporate into my edits.

    Siri is the ass end of jokes, but it's nice saying "Remind me to download the Transformers demo when I get home" and the moment I pull up into the driveway I get a ding on my phone. I haven't had to physically set an alarm to wake in months. Instead I just say "Wake me up at 6AM" It's made my life a fuckovalot easier, and I haven't had the need for those extra features that only open the door for more hacking and potentially damaging my investment for something I'm not even going to use. I have my Sony (not Apple) laptop for that kind of experimenting :) 

    That said, I do think that Apple is full of shit, and needs to tone it down. Like I said. I am not an Apple fan, but have been finding my media life to be a lot easier since I started using my iPad and iPhone together.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  11. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    I have an iPad and an iTouch, and the integration doesn't work for me. Again, it works if you have an iPhone, but if you have the other two iDevices, then it just becomes annoying that Apple practically forces me to get an iPhone to make the features truly work.

    As for Siri, eh, it's a joke but S Voice is no better. To be honest, I believe that with current technology, all Voice Control technology is flawed. There's no reason to laugh at just one. Both Android and iOS fail at voice control, about as much as each other. :(  Sad, really, as Voice Control would be a cool feature if it worked, but for now it's just sci fi.

    Also, you have an Apple TV, an iPad and an iPhone. That's not a lifestyle product, it's a product oriented lifestyle. And that's a huge difference. Most people don't feel like having to buy three pieces of technology just to get it to have one good function (interlinking, which I'll admit is fantastic on iOS when you have an iPhone to link it all together... Too bad Apple's other products have convinced me to stay away from iPhone). One Android tablet is portable (no need for linking at all, you just take the one machine wherever you need to go) and does what I need it to do.

    Of course, I think there will always be a market for Apple's style, and if anything we can all agree that no matter what we prefer in terms of systems, Apple's lawsuits have been getting just a bit too numerous recently. So much so, I find all of their lawsuits somewhat disputable purely because their lawsuit track record is a mix of "got nowhere" and "revealed Apple company secrets". :lol 
     
  12. chaddi_90

    chaddi_90 Prime

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    You should see the new google now search function, it's awesome and has the about the same functionality as siri but a bit faster and has a more human-like voice.
     
  13. chaddi_90

    chaddi_90 Prime

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    Off course the integration between all idevices are better, thats partly because they are "made" from the same company and they share the same eco-system. It's pretty hard to find three different devices that can link with each other without the hassle of installing software and what not. Fortunately that will get a lot better with google's nexus "product line", the nexus Q,galaxy nexus and the nexus 7" tablet.

    I get that it can be a bit more scatterbrained for some users but that because of the diversity android has to offer. Off course a high end smartphone will have a lot easier to play game that a low end smartphone can't. That analogi you used with the ps3 is a bit wierd imho just because a their isn't that much of a hardware difference.
     
  14. Bendimus Prime

    Bendimus Prime Rolls for initiative TFW2005 Supporter

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    I'd like to say this case has no legs, but if this jury is made up of the "common man" that I do IT work for everyday, Samsung has their work cutout for them. People are head-over-heals for Apple, and think they are just the best damn company ever. Even though when I ask them why, they really don't know outside of the usual, "Well, they just work" or "They have no viruses!"
    You and I are enemies now, sir!
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Subotnik

    Subotnik Please Stand By.

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    The thing about Android is that it allows you to use it pretty much however you want to, so, just like a PC, if you load it with trash or try to push it beyond what it's capable of doing it'll be a terrible experience. On the other hand it also means you're not locked into a workflow decided for you by someone else. I remember when I first got my iphone and had to wait until OS 3.0 for MMS functionality because Apple decided to push email as the primary form of phone to phone multimedia communication instead. Forcing email was a great way to drive smartphone sales and boost Apple's bank balance, but it wasn't so good when you were trying to send a photo to one of the vast majority of people who only had an ordinary phone.

    For anyone interested in the court case, All Things D has pretty good blow by blow coverage of the events by their reporter on site:

    Ina Fried - AllThingsD

    Groklaw has some coverage and links to various liveblogs as well:

    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120731122403568
     

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