Sam's change of character from ROTF to DOTM

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by DecepticonsRule, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. DecepticonsRule

    DecepticonsRule Triple-Changer

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    After re-watching ROTF and DOTM, I'm actually pretty surprised at how much Sam's character changed between the two films. I'm not sure if it was because of different writers, but the change wasn't for the better.

    In ROTF, he wanted nothing to do with the Autobots, and wanted to just be a normal guy. In DOTM, he couldn't handle the idea of being normal, and complained all the time about not being involved with the Autobots. To be honest I thought he was a bit of a whiny bitch in DOTM, and seemed angry at everyone and everything throughout the whole film.

    I'm not a huge fan of DOTM in the first place, but Sam's attitude for me didn't do anything to help the movie. I'm just wondering if anyone else found his personality somewhat grating throughout the film, especially considering how he behaved in ROTF.
     
  2. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    I noticed no change at all until the moment Dylan kidnapped Carly. And there were no different writers.
     
  3. xElement24x

    xElement24x New Member

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    I agree entirely. The first two movies he was a somewhat likable character. He helped the autobots but also wanted to get away for a normal life. In DOTM his character did a 360. Commanding Bumblebee like a little dog? Really? If i were bumblebee I would have stepped on him. On top of that, Sam seemed to scream more than speak throughout the entire film. GO BEE GO BEE GO BEE, and my favorite GET HIM GET HIM GET HIM. The worst, and im sure most people agree, is when he killed starscream. I feel as if perhaps there was too much ego flying around in the background of the film. It seemed as if Sam(or rather Beoufs ego) was getting the best of him and it started to show within the film. Maybe im wrong, what do you guys think?
     
  4. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    Several characters went through changes from the 1st movie to the sequels, these most notably being Sam, Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Simmons, etc.
     
  5. LamboTwinLove

    LamboTwinLove Lambo Assassin

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    Well I think it's because he was in different places in his life. In the first one he was a high school kid. And at that stage you're supposed to have adventures, granted nothing like what Sam got to do. Next, he was going to college. College is a stressful time and also a time where you're supposed to be finding who you are and things like that so I think for Sam then it was more life was dictating that he needed to do the college thing and he couldn't do both. I think there was a part of him that wanted to help but as we grow up we are taught how important college is to out futures so I think that was a big part of what was going on with his character and why he acted that way. Finally in Dark of the Moon he graduated college and like many people today he can't find a job. And he knows the military could so give him one working with the autobots because he has done this before. Problem is he is still a civilian, so really if the road he wanted to go down was working with the autobots he should have gone into the military and such. Would have been the smarter choice. And I think Sam realized this all too late like a lot of us do. He simply made the wrong choice and he's taking it all out on everyone else around him.
     
  6. PRIMEMAN3457

    PRIMEMAN3457 Leader

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    TF1: "Oh my god! Alien robots exist!!"

    ROTF: "Just leave me alone! I don't want to fight!"

    DOTM: "I wanna fight!"

    TF4: (nothing. he's not there)
     
  7. MV95

    MV95 @marlinfan1995 News Staff

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  8. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Maybe I watched a different DotM than you did, but I don't recall Sam commanding 'Bee like a dog. Heck, I don't remember Sam commanding 'Bee like a dog at all in the entire trilogy, save for him shouting to have 'Bee protect him. If anything, Sam's relationship with Bumblebee is summed up thusly:

    1.) Befriends 'Bee, it's super awesome.
    2.) Realizes that their lives are going in separate directions, believes it's best if they 'split'.
    3.) Begins to realize that he wants to spend more time with Bumblebee. Friendship rekindled.

    Rarely does Sam command him like a dog. At worst Bumblebee himself acts like Sam's pet. But even that's rare. They're friends. Partners. Guardian and his human whom he guards. They have ups and they have downs. Bumblebee saves Sam's life, Sam is best buds with him. Bumblebee does something wrong, Sam scolds him. Sam is in danger, Sam calls for Bumblebee.

    It's not really a complete 360. He's simply a guy who doesn't really know what he wants. LamboTwinLove sums it up very well.

    Same way that Tony almost reverts back to his (slightly more) arrogant, self-centered self in IM2. Or how Peter Parker wants Mary Jane, then marries her and then basically completely forgets about her/ruins his chances with her. or how Cyclops' character just gets more and more mopey throughout the X-Men trilogy, going from the confident team leader character to a brooding emo (generalizations).

    Don't get me wrong, it's obviously a change of character. But I really don't think it's a complete 360 or completely out of left field as some people claim. Characters change. They grow, they evolve. Sometimes devolve. It all has to do with a character's environment and the situations they go through. Sam is no different.

    We can always hope. ;) 
     
  9. Muramasa

    Muramasa Well-Known Member

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    Sam really did outlive his usefulness in DOTM. The knowledge of the Allspark is no longer in him for some reason and the Cons aren't after him anymore.
     
  10. AMG

    AMG Old School

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    Thankfully. This alone will improve TF4 greatly.
     
  11. MPrime10

    MPrime10 Boomsticks.

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    Sam had some great moments in the trilogy. It's too bad that those great moments can be overshadowed by the fact that he was a jerk at times.
     
  12. SHINOBI03

    SHINOBI03 Well-Known Member

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    What about when he came to the base and Bee rescued him from the guards and Sam was all like "Is that's our friendship?" "You never visit even once!" "Like hanging with the bots more than me?" and such?


    Maybe Obama's medal was the ego boaster.
     
  13. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Exactly.

    He became a self entitled prick and he wasn't like a funny jerk, he was just annoying.

    I still don't know how he charms the ladies?
     
  14. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Yes, but that's still not "commanding him like a dog". If anything, that's Sam getting all bent out of shape that 'Bee doesn't hang out with him as often as he used to. It's basically myself questioning another friend as to why they hang out with other people more than me. Sam wants to have a relationship with Bumblebee. Sam wants to be around him. They're friends, not a pet and his owner.
     
  15. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Well, he started out as a twat, continued to be a twat and ended the series as a twat. He just changed flavors each time.
     
  16. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    "Try our new Revenge of the Fallen flavour! Now with less teenage angst and more education!"
     
  17. PRIMEMAN3457

    PRIMEMAN3457 Leader

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    I agree.
    Plus, if TF4 does end up taking place in space, then I think it'll be the best one. That is, unless they get humans to go with them in astronaut suits.
     
  18. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Kinda what I was gonna say. He was always some flavour of twat. He was supposed to be the main human we all rooted for and identified with, but he was just an endless dick and self-interested ass. Sam was a dick and a twat and an ass. I'm assuming if he was ever to be in TF4 he'd also be a tit to complete the set.
     
  19. Silk Spectre

    Silk Spectre The Evil Queen

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    Yeah, but then at the end, the last line he says to Bee in that scene is about his "new" car -"I hope you feel bad, you should feel bad. Look at the jalopy I'm driving now. I feel bad every day".

    It's the little things like that.

    It doesn't help that, in ROTF, Bumblebee and Sam share very little one on one scenes together except for two: the first after the incident with the kitchen bots (in which Sam sounds like an asshole with his "I can't be normal with you" line, set after the whole "Get in the garage now!" bossing him like a pet or kid) and after Optimus is killed (which is a solid scene). The rest of the time Bumblebee's just a glorified chauffeur.

    After their bond in the first movie, ROTF is jarring, with Sam suddenly wanting to be normal and the lack of Bumblebee/Sam scenes that show their friendship.

    That said, in DOTM, near the middle and end, it was like Bay suddenly remembered that their Spielbergian bond was a major thing in the first movie and important - because we did get good scenes with the Autobot's exile and Bee's almost execution.

    But it's down to better character writing. I really wish we'd gotten other human/autobot friendships - my personal favorite and want was Ironhide and Lennox - but it would've been interesting to see the differences.

    While Sam himself is the only character who gets true development in the movie series, IMO. And while it makes sense in places, I can't help but feel like they wasted a lot of time constantly trying to show his "normal" life in the next two movies.

    At least at the end of the first movie, Sam is still a kid, so it's understandable that his involvement would be limited unless the shit hit the fan and he was forced into it. But the end of ROTF has Sam realizing how important he is in the Autobot cause - the whole set up of his journey in ROTF revolved around that. Optimus had tried to basically recruit him earlier in the film when he asked for his help as a "liason" of type. So then we open DOTM with him having nothing to do with the bots even though he now wants to help, so we get scenes of his job hunting and his parents. It was unnecessary, forced conflict to keep the "normal" life stuff.

    He went on the hero's journey/coming of age story in the first movie, and it would have improved the narrative to continue his character development with the Autobots/NEST instead of spending half of the next two movies each divided between Sam's normal life and the rest of the characters. There was just no need for that. I think that furthers peoples' frustrations with the character.
     
  20. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    I'm still not seeing an overbearing "owner commanding his dog" attitude there. I still see them as friends, who occasionally get negative with each other. I can scold my best friend for being a jerk and it won't come off as if I own him or anything. We can go out for lunch and he'll drive me around, but that doesn't make him my boss or me his boss. Any animosity between 'Bee and Sam pretty much boils down to Sam being a dick. ;)  Sam wants his space, 'Bee gives him his space. Sam wants to hang out, 'Bee hangs out with him.

    Completely agree on the remaining 95% of your post though. :thumbs2: 
     

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