ROTF Plot Cancels Itself out.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Attobot2006, May 7, 2010.

  1. Attobot2006

    Attobot2006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Posts:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Likes:
    +0
    Bumblebee can't go to school with Sam, but ends up going anyway.

    Sam can't help the Autobots, but ends up helping them anyway.

    Megatron is dead, but comes back to life.

    Prime is killed, but comes back to life.

    Jetfire was out of commission (dormant), is revived, then goes back out of commission (dead).

    Prime became Jetfire Prime, then shucked the armor off and went back to being regular Prime.

    The Matrix of Leadership was lost/hidden. THen it was found. Then it was destroyed again along with....

    ....The Sun Harvester, which was hidden, then rediscovered, then destroyed.

    The Fallen was (re)introduced to the TF scene, and then he was eliminated from the scene (once Prime killed him.)

    All the fighting and killing of Megs in the first movie was pointless because now he's out and about again as if none of that ever happened.

    EVERYTHING in this plotline CANCELS ITSELF OUT! There is no true plot DEVELOPMENT or progression!

    About the only progression I can think of is Sam managed to say "I Love You" after struggling (appearently for 2 years) to finally say to her, lol.


    All this, being said, it's just like the old cartoons, actually:

    Decepticons pose a threat,
    Autobots neutralize the threat,
    Decepticons retreat back to base,
    Autobots transform and roll for home.
    Next episode: they do it all over again! lol.

    They should just skip all the acting and make the movie one big fight scene between giant robots... oh wait a minute, they already did that!
     
  2. Waveride

    Waveride Creative Team

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Posts:
    1,708
    News Credits:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +34
    That's kinda funny and yet sad at the same time!
     
  3. AndreyOfDoom

    AndreyOfDoom maximize

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Posts:
    1,142
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    182
    Likes:
    +4
    Wow seriously. I am saving your post because it is so true!
     
  4. Attobot2006

    Attobot2006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Posts:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Likes:
    +0
    Ya know, I just realized, this whole Canceling-itself-out thing is a common theme of Transformers in General, actually.

    Plot progression depends on change..... evolution.... from one thing into a whole nother thing..... it grows, it expands, it TRANSFORMS....duh, right?

    But Transformers don't really Evolve and keep evolving. They don't really PROGRESS. They do transform from a robot into some other thing, yes, but then after that, they end up transforming back into a robot.

    So at one point, it's a robot. THen it's not a robot anymore. Then it's a robot again.

    Transformers cancel themselves out, lol.

    So technically, I guess, ROTF remains true to the nature of Transformers in general by having a plot that does all these complicated intricate things only to revert back to what it started as in the first place.

    Lol
     
  5. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Posts:
    5,622
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +22
    So basically since everything canceled itself out in the movie that means nothing really happened. LOL!
     
  6. Attobot2006

    Attobot2006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Posts:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Likes:
    +0
    Exactly! ^
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    66,409
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    407
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +916
    Actually it's quite oppisite.

    That post is just so silly I can't even begin, but I'll try:

    What you're describing IS plot progression. Sam not wanting to help the Autobots but helping them anyway? That's because he had to, or rather, he felt he needed to after PRIME DIED. THAT was his motivation for helping them.

    All these things aren't the plot cancelling itself out. That's actually pretty stupid thing to say. They're plot elements moving or being resolved.

    Example: the Sun Harvester. That was built up ever since they got to Egypt. The whole point of the movie was to stop the Fallen and destroy the thing that'll end our world. You're complaining that the primary goals of the characters were acheived? That's what a movie is about, dude.

    Every single "cancellation" you brought up is just the plot moving. I don't even understand how someone reaches a conclusion like this so absurd uness they're really grasping for straws. I heard legitimate complaints for the movie, but this is nonsense.

    For shows it's apparent, and the ROTF seemed to set things up as well. It's called, for cartoons, preserving the status quo. For the movies, it seems they were directly setting up (with Megatron, Starscream and Soundwave the only remainign Decepticons) their own trap door for the next movie. However, what people often fail to realise is that doesn't mean the plot "cancells itself out." That'd only work if nothing happened, but all these "cancellations" were either brought upon by or caused something to happen, furthering the story.
     
  8. Attobot2006

    Attobot2006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Posts:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Likes:
    +0

    Hmm, maybe you're right. But for some reason, ROTF just seems pointless to me. It really feels like it just cancels itself out. All the fighting and destruction for what? In the end, technically, it doesn't advance, it regresses, because they aren't simply resolved back to a neutral status (before the threat was introduced); the threat is resolved, yes, but now they are left with losses and damages on a phenomenal scale that dont even account for some positive exchange in return. In effect, they are at a loss.

    IMO, ideal plot progression, traditionally, starts out with characters at a certain point, a threat is posed and is not only neutralized, but, in the act of being neutralized leaves the protagonists with something MORE, even if it's a lesson learned (even despite any physical losses or damages or casualties that occured in the process, like, for example, someone redeeming themselves, or learning to embrace a part of themselves that they were struggling with internally, or sacrifice that happened for the good of all humanity, etc...).

    I guess that's also what makes ROTF seem pointless to me: I think character development and plot are integral parts of each other, and the whole movie line lacks much character development at all. So much that a TF's death seems inconsequential to us, cuz we didn't even get to know them. Prime died in the G1 movie. We cried. Prime died in this movie. Did we even care? Did we care when Jazz died either in the first movie? Even when Jetfire valiantly sacrificed his (already dying) spark so that he could help Prime amp up against The Fallen, I wasn't moved by his gesture, surrounding characters didn't even react to his sacrifice, Prime just got cooler looking, and then in the end just shed the extra parts onto the ground like he was brushing himself off of extra debris....those were the parts of a heroic Jetfire that donated himself to help the Autobot cause! There was no respect for his remains! His heroic gesture was not even addressed! Prime also had no humility in accepting the sacrifice. A true-to-character Prime would have told Jetfire not to do it first, or, after accepting the sacrifice would have said something to honor what was given up so that the greater good could benefit (like in G1 when Jazz was saying A3 was crazy for giving himself up just so we could make a bunch of jets, and Prime said "No, one Autobot gave his life so that Six could be born.") ROTF had no such redeeming moral or ethical weight. It was HOLLOW.


    I can make a short film about a glass that gets knocked over off of a table and spills red wine all over the floor (which is the threat, so to speak) and then film someone cleaning up the mess and filling up a new glass of wine to replace it. I GUESS you could call that a non-cancelling plot since it is suppossedly "development" by posing a threat and then a resolution to the threat. But it is pointless without any lesson learned, any character development or meaningful or moving progression that engages the audience or evokes some kind of emotion, even if it's just a response to something spectacular (Like giant robots battling each other), but even though ROTF has giant robots battling each other, there are few scenes there that even serve to have a redeeming "awe" factor since the scenes are so fast and jerky and overloaded with excessive detail that our senses don't even have time to completely digest. (I think for me, the only "awe" factor scene I really liked was watching Devastator form; not only cuz of how HUGE he was, but it actually looked PAINFUL to the individual constructicons as they were more-or-less ASSIMILATED (versus willingly combined) into the Devastator form.

    I know it's hard to have really good character development in such a short period of time (versus G1 TF's that get several episodes to develop their characters), but seriously, ROTF was SO LONG...I've seen shorter movies with very good character development even for characters that I wasn't necessarily familiar with prior to the movie. The only character in ROTF that we can really kind of "know" and take for granted is Prime, because we already know Cullen-mus Prime as a standard.

    So, yeah, I stand by my assertion that ROTF just cancels itself out, because even though the threat is posed and then resolved, there is no redeeming POINT to the resolution; we don't come out BETTER after all is said and done. In the end, Megs still exists, Decepticon threat is still there, and for all 149 mins we sat through this movie we aren't rewarded with any insight into character development that creates any particular affinity or sympathy for the characters, there is no lesson learned, sacrifices made did not really better the world in any lasting major way, and there were few redeeming action sequences that at least make up for the lack of development.

    It was all just POINTLESS. In effect, IT CANCELS ITSELF OUT. :p 
     
  9. Crumplezone

    Crumplezone Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Posts:
    551
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +0
    Except you forgot the part where there was a giant robot planning to HARVEST THE SUN.

    You could probably say that MOST movies cancel themselves out.
     
  10. Attobot2006

    Attobot2006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Posts:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Likes:
    +0
    OT, sorta, but take Ultra Violet, for example. Completely empty plot, pointless, also "self-cancelling" by my standards....BUT,it is visually redeeming IMO.

    You'd think I would say the same about ROTF because of the sheer amount of CG effects and detail that was poured into its creation. But somehow the delivery seems to gloss over all this detail, and it goes unappreciated, cannot be savored, cannot be digested.

    I think I find a lot of the stills from ROTF way cooler than the moving action sequences themselves that they were taken from.

    In fact, I feel bad for trashing ROTF, cuz MAN, do you see how much design, detail, engineering, artistry, time, money, and effort went into designing all that imagery? WOW, I am amazed. I can appreciate those things when I consciously acknowledge those elements on my own; the movie itself, however, fails to present these elements in a pallatable user-friendly way; it kinda just slams it in your face and yells it directly into your ears. You can yell at me in my face that you're the awesomest thing on earth, but that's not gonna make me see it, even if it's true. Gotta step back and appreciate you for what you are at a reasonable volume and pace. But ROTF doesn't allow us to do that. It just keeps yelling.
     
  11. MegatronSupporter

    MegatronSupporter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Posts:
    530
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +0
    EXACTLY,if there was no PROGRESSION,then Megatron wouldn't have been revived,Pime wouldn't have been revived,Sam would have still been acting weird,etc.
     
  12. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Posts:
    11,361
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +41
    By this logic, most movie plots cancel themselves out.
     
  13. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Posts:
    13,629
    News Credits:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +30
    Seriously, if everytime a villain dies it means that the plot cancelled itself out then damn, every movie in the world except documentaries are pointless.
     
  14. MACRAPTRON

    MACRAPTRON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Posts:
    3,442
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +8
    Hum... no. Thank you.
     
  15. Dinobot Nuva

    Dinobot Nuva Johnny 3 Tears Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Posts:
    7,968
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    221
    Likes:
    +15
    What the OP has described is Conflict-Resolution.
     
  16. MegatronSupporter

    MegatronSupporter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Posts:
    530
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +0
    Indeeeeeeeed.
     
  17. ComicGuy89

    ComicGuy89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Posts:
    3,356
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Likes:
    +5
    Actually in a way, in my opinion, your idea of canceling out works to the series' benefit, allowing producers to dismiss this movie when trying to make a better third movie. Imagine if they made a really convoluted and messed up plot and the third movie would have to solve all the plot points first before going ahead with a new story. Therefore, right now, Transformers 3 can go ahead and try again without having any leftover baggage from ROTF.

    Of course, if the movie was excellent in the first place this point would be null, but right now I'd rather have a good Transformers 3 movie that is so good that I can gloss over ROTF next time, instead of having a Transformers 3 that is so intrinsically connected to ROTF that it hurts itself.

    By the way, I'm hopeful that the Matrix of Leadership makes a further appearance in the third movie, and it hasn't yet been shown on-screen that it was destroyed. So here's hoping for a reappearance of the Matrix and that it'll be a major plot point in the future.
     
  18. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's scriptor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Posts:
    4,854
    News Credits:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    182
    Likes:
    +63
    I literally laughed out loud. Thank you. But yeah, so true. However the plot does progress. That's how they got to Egypt.
     
  19. janeDoe001

    janeDoe001 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Posts:
    4,047
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Likes:
    +24
    And also, and this is a big one:

    HUMANITY NOW KNOWS ABOUT THEM!!!


    jD001
     
  20. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Posts:
    14,130
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +198
    I also loved that one that only a Prime can kill the Fallen. Yet in the first movie Megatron and Prime fight to a draw and it's Sam who resolves the fight. Second movie Megatron kills Prime. If Megatron can kill a Prime then logic says he should be able to kill the Fallen. Yet he's a lackey to the Fallen instead of just blasting him to become supreme leader of the Decepticons. Oh wait that's right the Fallen is dead so Megatron becomes supreme leader without doing anything cool or like Megatron would in any other series.

    Even the human plots don't go anywhere either since Mikaela has the white dress and the flowers but the film decides to go nowhere at all about a marriage between her and Sam.

    On the bright side at least this means when this series of films are over at last they will not have any lasting impact on the Transformers universe since the only things they have managed to do is kill off Jazz and just about every Decepticon they can think of except for Starscream and Soundwave. And Soundwave seems more like because they forgot he was in the film so Simmons could radio the conveniently placed rail gun.
     

Share This Page