Sorry for pulling two quotes from a different thread, but I thought it'd be more applicable for me to respond to them in this one.

You guys have really hit the nail on the head regarding what bothers me about RiD. It's very meandering...but not in a good way. The plots seem to completely revolve around fixing continuity errors from the past and not about telling a good, coherent story with interesting characters.

And I'm going to ask those who do prefer RiD to MTMTE: What, exactly, is political about RiD? Is it the whole "who gets to be in charge?" thing with Bumblebee, Starscream, and Metalhawk? Because if it is, to be honest, that's not only a very, very simplistic form of politics, but also something I don't care about in the least.

No, really. Barber has failed to make me care about who could end up being in charge. Even though RiD now has 13 issues under its belt, I simply haven't learned more about or felt for those three characters at all during the entire course of RiD's run. They're all very two dimensional (or worse, one dimensional) and I'd have the exact same reaction if any one of them came to power. That reaction would be a resounding "Meh."

If the "politics" that people are talking about is Prowl's methods and how unethical/amoral they are because of how they effect Cybertronians as a whole...that's really not very interesting either. And also a very shallow understanding of politics and conflict.

There are people that keep going on and on about how cerebral and mature RiD is and I just don't see it. RiD is certainly better than Costa's run, but that's like saying reading RiD is better than having feces plopped into your lap...it's not exactly the highest of praises and doesn't make RiD sound as good as you think it does.

Over all, RiD is very middle-of-the-road to me. It's been 13 issues and I still don't care about the characters at all and what they're doing. The pacing is unbearably slow, on par with AHM in my humble opinion, and that doesn't change when you go back and read the issues consecutively. Arcee, who Barber has said in interviews is his favourite character to write for, hasn't done much at all besides act as a deus ex machina in all the worst ways possible. In fact, it's almost hysterical when you go back in the earlier issues and see her insist that she isn't Prowl's lackey...when that is exactly what she's been throughout the series so far.

And speaking of Prowl, I can't help but feel very underwhelmed with his actions. Prowl being a mastermind should be an interesting thing to read, but even with the revelation in this latest issue it all strikes me as very hollow and not part of a bigger mystery, but rather Barber just pulling "shocking" reveals out of his arse to try and satisfy us for just a biiiiiiit longer to drag out the plot more.

RiD isn't a political thriller or a "frontier story" like I was lead to believe it was from solicitations and from Barber himself. It's become "Continuity Fixes and Prowl Slowly Becoming a Psychotic Control Freak: The Comic". And I'm sorry, but compared to MTMTE which has awesome character-building moments and worldbuilding and intriguing plotlines all over the place...RiD's every fault sticks out more and more to me each issue. That's why, as sad as it is, I've decided to drop financially supporting RiD. I might continue reading it through other means to see if it ever does live up to its promise of being shocking and well-written, but something tells me that if it hasn't happened in a year's worth of issues, it'll never happen.

 

Cevel, I agree with everything you just said, but I would actually feel guilty dropping RID after giving Mike Costa 2 years of my money. It seems unfair.  

But yeah, I'd say that in spite of the interesting premise, this series has given us just about ZERO insight into character motivations and ZERO development. The conditions may have gotten more volatile, but everyone in this book is arguably EXACTLY the same as they were at the outset... except now they've had a few more opportunities to re-state the same status quo. Which is fine... if you're filling your comic with other good stuff. But in this case, we're not exactly talking about a densely plotted storyline. And if anything IS going on, it's so far behind the scenes that it's absolutely opaque to the reader (which, bluntly, is the same as NOTHING going on at all).

I will add the caveat that Starscream has gotten SOME character development... but not much. He broke with the other Decepticons a looooong time ago, and hasn't had much new to say since. Listening to his interminable wishy-washy internal monologue doesn't cut it.

So yeah, it may seem to Barber, if he were to read this thread, like the dogs have turned on him. But I think the issue here is that we WANT him to be better. Turn it around, John. Make it good. We'll come back!  

zmog

 

I'm perfectly happy with RiD as is, and think you're all a bit crazy to be expecting a sophisticated political commentary from a comic book  

 

And yet we're getting just that from MTMTE and it's not even politic oriented like RID should be.

 

I really wouldn't call MTMTE a political commentary either. I think you're stretching there.

 

I think that most people regard a "who shall be the leader and what is he thinking this issue" situation as political.

As for the two books and the comparison on the storylines, I do prefer MTMTE but RID is also a very nice book. MTMTE has more character development, sure, but of the two, its story has progressed far less.

RID has actually gone way further in its storyline, which is essentially about a post war cybertron, and has many running plots. The unstable nature of the planet, the wilderness outside the city, Prowl's machinations, Decepticon's machinations [may be one and the same, maybe not], the stolen ship situation which evolved into Syndromica which is a whole different plot, Starscream's machinations and the endgame from issue 13.

MTMTE has more and better character development but little story progress. A year since release, they went to Crystal city, found no-one and raided a decepticon camp which they thought had prisoners from Crystal City. That's the whole 'searching for the Knights of Cybertron' saga. Off story, lots of things happen, like the sparkeater business, Chromedome's and Rewind's story, the Delphi affair which indirectly led to the DJD which led to a second group of protagonists, the whole nominus prime business as a background to brining Rung back online and lots of other details. It's more fitting to "adventures in space with beings that occasionally transform" than a transformers comic. That's a good thing, trust me, but the knights storyline is way back.

 

You've got different factions seeking political power of Cybertron, bots working behind the scenes to grab that power, factions and groups within groups, bots who believe they have a pseudo-religious mandate to rule, and those who think the system isn't working. Whether or not people think it's a good political drama is one thing, but to say it's not is ridiculous.

I have loved Barber's run so far. I'll admit sometimes the dialogues and monologues seem flat. Comparing RiD to MTMTE, there are far fewer speech bubbles in the former. But I have enjoyed watching things slowly deteriorate and boil over, and it's here that I think Barber has really excelled. Tighten up the dialogue, and he's well on his way.

 

No, I expect people to stop giving credit to a comic for being "political" when it's actually pretty simplistic and superficial.

Except that it has WAY more actual political commentary in it, way more moral relativism, societal nuance and intrigue, than the ostensible political series. The sheer amount of richness Roberts has added to the Cybertronian society and culture and political and spiritual outlook, even just through flashbacks and asides, dwarfs the scope of RID.

I literally could not enumerate everything MTMTE has thrown on the table. RID... well we've got bots, cons and neutrals, and they don't like each other... oh and Prowl thinks he needs tighter authoritarian controls because of his distrust of Decepticons and Liberals, er... Neutrals. Starscream's like "I don't want to fight all the time, I want to lead from a cushy position... boohoo". Oh, and they have a jazz bar.

And then there's a mutated wasteland and an ancient city beneath the sands and a time machine, and Optimus Prime tracking down a crew of deranged eugenics scientists across the galaxy. Considering how dull things have been at home, I think Barber should have run with some of that other stuff a bit more. With the amount of time he's spent going around in circles about the elections and Arcee killing people, it just feels like stalling.

You can't call them "machinations" if nothing actually seems to be happening. You can't be just TOLD that something has happened and be expected to find it exciting. NONE of the things you just mentioned have been developed at all.

Meanwhile, speaking of "story", it depends... MTMTE has a LOT of running plots, and it's true... the search for the Knights of Cybertron has progressed exactly nowhere. What's interesting though is how that's NOT really the story of MTMTE, and how the REAL stories of that series are not surging forward, but rather plunging backward in time. It's not a linear progression, but lateral... or even three-dimensional. Like any good detective story, a lot of narrative is being constructed in reverse. We are constantly learning new things about all the major characters and the events that brought them to us, and this requires a constant restructuring of our perceptions of the situation. The range of the story is expanding enormously with every issue, even if nobody has even mentioned a Knight of Cybertron in a couple of issues. Most of the interesting stuff happens without leaving the ship.

Which is fantastic, because that "quest" plot was boring to begin with... when I read the synopsis for the 2 new IDW series last year, MTMTE was the one that sounded ho-hum, and RID sounded like the compelling one. Oh, what a difference a year makes.

He should tighten up his stories while he's at it. The "slow boil" in this case (for me) has been about as interesting as watching a pot boil too. I see the ingredients sitting there next to the pot, but nothing has started to cook yet, let alone acquire any flavour.  

zmog

 

Way more than none doesn't mean it has a lot  

The flashback with senator Shockwave was nice, but besides that? I can't remember any amazing political stuff in MTMTE either.



I agree that Barber needs to cut away from the Iacon stuff for a while. I've been waiting far too long to find out what's going on with Superion, Ironhide and the Dinobots. 50% of that crowd are some my favourite transformers, what're they bloody doing!

And what happened to Sky Lynx? Omega?


I enjoy a good Prowl story as much as the next guy, but Arcee does need to just die. Kind've sick of the super-powered crap, it's like the intro of Drift all over again.


EDIT: I also agree that a year of building up is enough- get to the point already and finish the story arc. There's bigger, more interesting things in the TF universe than who controls Cybertron.

I'm quite bummed that Megatron's back, was hoping for something different.

 

Hmm... I think that some of you might be being a little harsh on Barber.

I have very much enjoyed what he's been doing with Prowl. After the taste of Prowl's ideology we got from AHM:Coda, I've been waiting for him to make a big impact on the War that wouldn't neccesarily gel with the "Autobot Way". I am very much looking forward to seeing how Bumblebee and his other team mates react to what he's been up to.

I am glad they are fixing a lot of the problems that were left by Costa, McArthy and even Furman. It may have taken away from the main overall storyarc a few times, but it's nice to get a couple one off issues in an ongoing series.

I do agree that it would be nice to get some more characterization out of the characters. Unfortunately he doesn't have the ability that Roberts does to make every character seem relatable. I'm hoping that is what he improves upon in his second year on RiD.

 

That's because we love him  

 

RiD is mostly fine as it is. The elections serve as a background to the actions of the characters, not the real main focus. Perhaps so for Bumblebee since its all he ever talks about. Starscream and Prowl are far more interesting characters.

What you described is what I feel about Regeneration One. I have a feeling the heat will be turned way way up on RiD from the next issue.

 

I think Roberts has a lot more freedom with MTMTE, self contained ship, can go anywhere, people mostly get along (except with Whirl aparently) - its like Lost in Space with transformers. Roberts can go anywhere and explore whatever he wants at his leisure. He hasnt really spent any time fixing continuity errors, at least not like Barber has (shadowplay is pretty much self-contained as a play within a play)

Roberts, on the other hand, has 3 factions stuck in one small spot, people playing both sides of the fence, (or just wanting to drink quietly at mcaddams) a teeming hostile wilderness, Optimus and Megatron waiting in the wings, a bunch of continuity errors that he has chosen to iron out, etc. In short, Barber has a lot more he has to juggle, by merit of having to deal with the fallout of a 4 million year war, and the problems created by previous writers in the ongoing and beyond.

I personally think RID has things in the right place, and some of the criticisms are a little unfair. I try to read each issue of RID and MTMTE 2 or 3 times, and frankly i think if people are giving it a quick read they might be missing subtle details.

Like, for example, i think in the RID 13 thread smog asked something to the effect of why would Prowl bring him into the Black Room with all the decepticons. To me, it makes sense, cause Prowl had to rescue wheeljack from the con hoard, and he cant just leave wheeljack to roam iacon on his own. I assume prowl has rebuilt the cons that stepped out of line (bombshell, constructicons, etc) with the pretender process so he could control them when megatron came back (cause he KNEW all along megatron would return, he says as much to wheeljack) - so rather than leaving wheeljack to fend for himself, like the nails have to, prowl brings wheeljack to the black room to play possum sort of because its safer than being out in the streets with the roaming con hoard (which already almost lynched wheeljack in issue 11)

can do my thought justice right now, have kids.

but yea...


i like RID< i dont think simply saying its boring or it hasnt gone anywhere proves your point.

reread issues 1 -13, give it another chance it your not enjoying it.

 

Fair point. I wouldn't say that MTMTE is VERY political, but moreso than most comics, and moreso than RID.

Well, I don't think the term "political" only refers to stories involving elected officials.  

Almost any time Roberts discusses anything pre-war, we see a political perspective on Cybertronian culture. What those flashbacks and offhand references to history say about the reality that is being lived now is far more relevant, interesting and complex than the blunt and protracted allegory of RID.

I know, right? See, here's the disconnect... Barber sees the fact that they have been removed from play as the "interesting" part. Most of us are much more interested in what happened to them and what's happening with them now. The fact that Omega is "neutralized" makes him LESS interesting, qualitatively. The fact that Skylynx has been, uh... hurt?... that is way less interesting than HOW he was hurt, and WHY he isn't better yet. The fact that we've gotten NOTHING on that front is just plain lazy.

Barber's basic formula since he took the reins here is to systematically REMOVE characters. Ratbat? Dead. Constructicons? Gone. Turmoil? Incarcerated. Dinobots? MIA. Aerialbots? Deserted. Ironhide? Missing. Omega? Bombed. Bombshell? Dead. Skywarp? Imprisoned. Sure, maybe it's all in service to his big reveal, but I don't understand how that can be interesting enough to carry this title for a year.  

Yeah, Arcee is pretty much what everyone THOUGHT Drift was going to be. Drift turned out to not be bad at all. Arcee on the other hand is a mess.

Oh, we definitely are. But it's for his own good.  

The sad thing is that 12-page story from the AHM:Coda has given us more insight into, and more affinity for, Prowl's unique and interesting outlook than anything that's been written about him in the intervening 3 years. All my love for IDW Prowl pretty much begins (and mostly ends) there.

Yeah, there is something to be said for that. I'm not saying Barber's not contributing... but he's better at some things than others.

And yet, those guys have barely left the Lost Light. And we still got the Scavengers and the DJD and the Galactic Council and a treatise on Cybertronian religion. I think it's a cop-out to say that Roberts has more freedom... THIS IS BARBER'S STORY. If he has less freedom, it's because he has made it that way. He's the writer! There is no force keeping him writing the same boring monologues for the same dry characters every issue. There is no reason why everyone needs to stay in the city, or stick with the same dull routines, or why we never actually follow up logically on any of the loose ends that tantalize us in this series.

And yeah... why is it that we are learning WAY more about Cybertronian society, history, culture and politics during the space odyssey series than we are in the series about the people ON Cybertron, who are trying to rebuild that society? Something's wrong here.  

I didn't ask that. I asked why he would be holding him prisoner if he was in control of the Decepticons (which I'm not sure he is). That was more to debunk one theory, not a direct shot at Barber (because I have NO idea what will be revealed next... why should I? I don't think we've been given very much to go on).

That's possible. All I know is that Barber has a LOT of explaining to do, so he'd better bring his A game.

I'm in suspense, but not in the sense of anticipating greatness, but rather dreading disappointment... which is not the same thing.

No, which is why I have generally tried to illustrate my points and give reasons for my feelings. But there are only so man ways to say that the characterizations are flat, and that it doesn't feel like very much is going on in each issue. And I think having MTMTE around each month just serves to illustrate how much more one could be doing with Transformers.

zmog

 

Meh, I dug this. Is it as consistently good as MTMTE and living up to all the promise it had? No, not really. But I'm not bored and actually give a shit about what'll happen next.
*shrug*

 

Just finished the Vol. 2 TPB today and I have to agree, it feels like it's been YEARS since the whole Ironhide/Dinobots thing, and in continuity it's been a few days.....

Currently we have
Prowl machinations
BB is trying to keep it together
Metalhawk is whining about whatever is in front of him
Ironhide & The dinobots are missing
Something created Superion
Stasrcream is trying to hold it all together in a way that serves him AND Cybertron
Megatrons back
Blurr is running a bar
Arcee is making her move
Dirge is trying to keep his head down
The decepticons are rioting
Omega may or may not be dead.
OH...and we're still talking about having elections....at some point,

Thats 13 spinning plates right now, and I tried to combine things where I could, but 13 is what I come up with. I LIKE RID a lot, but freaking A this " it all comes together" Barber promised needs to happen!

 

A lot of that HAS already pretty much come together...

 

I see what you did there.

 

Hope Bluestreak, Jetfire, and Warpath are OK. Also really hope something puts Prowl and Arcee out of commission after this storyline. because even now, with Megatron back in control and everything stacked in the Decepticon's favor...I still see them wiping out the Decepticon army without much of a hassle as part of another reversal. That's how rote this is getting. A couple of explosions, Arcee will stick to a wall, some bombs will go off, and Prowl's on top again.

 

I have to completely agree with Cevel and Smog on everything they said, every issuses leaves me very flat and empty... I want to drop it, but scared that maybe, maybe it might get good... maybe issue 14? ... riigghttt...