[RMF-3] Semifinal #1: #2 Razorclaw vs #3 Roadbuster

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by OptimusSolo, Sep 9, 2009.

?

[RMF-3] Semifinal #1: #2 Razorclaw vs #3 Roadbuster

Poll closed Sep 11, 2009.
  1. Razorclaw

    52.1%
  2. Roadbuster

    47.9%
  1. Brutus

    Brutus Autobot

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Posts:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +0

    If Melee combat is based on strength alone, then Razorclaw and his sword mean nothing, because they're both a strength of 8. So, that means that Razorclaw's ONE ranged weapon is more powerful than all of Roadbuster's? That's ridiculous. Razorclaw's sword has to be considered in the Firepower stat. If Razorclaw's dual launchers were that powerful, he'd have no reason to wield a sword.

    I used both character's weaknesses. It just so happens that Razorclaw's weakness is more significant than Roadbuster's. Get over it.

    The stats on the back of the Transformers boxes were not designed for the tournaments we're doing here. If Intelligence played such a big role in these fights, then Perceptor would annihilate Razorclaw and I think we all know that's not very likely.

    Perceptor's stats: Perceptor - 1985 Transformers - Transformers Resources

    Razorclaw's concussion blasters fire capsules, not bullets, not shells, not grenades, but capsules that are packed with a volatile gas. When the capsules hit their target or near target, they open and gas comes out. Sorry, gas escaping a capsule does not have the velocity of an explosive, it can be dodged.
     
  2. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    Posts:
    2,609
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +1
    26 for Razorclaw, 23 for Roadbuster. Poll's not closed yet, either.

    The Predacon's not out of the woods yet, in either sense.

    - Coeloptera
     
  3. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,095
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +583
    I'm sure melee combat is based on a combination of strength and skill... but nobody said damage had a direct numerical value equal to Strength. However, logically, a sword's cutting power would be supplemented by strength, and further enhanced by whatever powers the sword has. Firepower could represent all weapons carried by a TF, including melee, but that's just a guess... it's hardly conclusive.

    I also think it's probably a simplification on our part to assume that all weapons carried by a TF have the same Firepower rating, when obviously some would be more potent than others. However, for the interests of these combats, we can only work with what we're given. When we don't have anything else to go on, we're forced to give some characters the benefit of the doubt.

    By the most obvious, explicit definition, Razorclaw's GUN is more powerful than ANY ONE of Roadbuster's guns, at the very least. However, it's possible that EACH of Roadbuster's guns is rated around 6, so combined, he's carrying more Firepower. But RC's Double Concussion Blaster is a heavier weapon in general.

    Just to clarify, btw... according to the instruction manual, the concussion blasters aren't the twin shoulder mounted guns built into Razorclaw. It's actually the large double barreled cannon that reconfigures into Predaking's gun. It's a big mother. :) 

    That's absurd reasoning. You can't simply discount Razorclaw's concussion blaster on those grounds. Razorclaw has 7 Firepower for a reason.

    Obviously there's little logic in any technologically advanced giant robot with guns carrying a sword at all, but it's one of the conventions of the genre. Still, such a weapon provides certain advantages when the battle moves to close quarters... even more so if the sword's damage-dealing capacity is a "buff" on the character's strength. With an 8 Strength, and a Sonic Sword that "increases the cutting power tenfold", you're looking at some SERIOUS destructive power. Within sword range, Roadbuster would be in some real trouble!

    By your definition, with Firepower 7 applying to the Sword's power, the sword doesn't even match Razorclaw's 8 Strength rating. He would do more damage with his fists. :) 

    Looking at it this way, Razorclaw has one big gun that's rated 7.
    He also has his sword and claws, which do damage based on his Strength 8 (plus extra for cutting). That's about the simplest way to put it.

    Not necessarily. Roadbuster has 2 weaknesses. His guns break down from overuse, and he jumps recklessly into dangerous situations... which is another reason why Razorclaw would outplay him.

    In your scenario, you applied Razorclaw's weakness at a pivotal moment, while Roadbuster's "weakness" is barely treated as a minor setback. When Razorclaw's joints lock up, it's at the precise moment of his attack, and he gets blasted by Roadbuster for it. When Roadbuster's gun jams, he simply backs up and fires again... no big deal. That shows more than a bit of a slant, doesn't it? ;) 

    After all, if Roadbuster's gun jams at a the wrong moment, Razorclaw would be all over him (that leaping ability means he can cover large gaps in a heartbeat), tearing into him with his claws or his sword, and generally putting an end to him... but you conspicuously avoid any real consequences presented by RB's "weakness".

    Again, that's pretty narrow thinking. These topics have all come up before. When one applies an Intelligence score to a character's particular field (much as one would for Skill as well), it ends up being much more sensible. Perceptor has great Skill and Intelligence... but all in the fields of scientific theory and practice (while at the same time being absent-minded). Razorclaw on the other hand has great Intelligence, but in his case, this intellect is applied to careful efficient tactical thinking and military craft. Only a fool would try to equate Perceptor's Intelligence with Razorclaw's... even a superficial reading of their profiles suggests a very different application.

    Wow... you're really stretching it aren't you? Thats' a petty defense... you're arguing based on a meaningless definition. "Capsule" describes the physical object in simple terms, not it's application or function.

    The gun is called a Concussion Blaster. It fires "capsules" that "explode on contact " AND release a "volatile" gas. That sounds a lot like a grenade launcher to me. And in terms of chemical compounds, "volatile" usually indicates "explosive" or "combustible"... so if Roadbuster is struck by one, or is even near one on impact, he is going to take some hurt. Your attempts to undermine the clear intent of Razorclaw's weapon description are getting more and more laughable. Sorry. :p 

    zmog
     
  4. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,095
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +583
    Oops! For some reason I thought the poll was done. This is a close one!

    Alright everyone... VOTE RAZORCLAW! :D 

    If you're not convinced yet, sit down, pour yourself a cup of tea, put on some soft music, and take an hour or two to read my assessment for Razorclaw. ;) 

    zmog
     
  5. ORIO

    ORIO Plant-Based Bot Super Mod News Staff

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    20,166
    News Credits:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    392
    Likes:
    +133
    Ebay:
    Was leaning towards Roadbuster at first, but now I'm gonna give it to Razorclaw
     
  6. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2004
    Posts:
    6,785
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +0
    Its all been said.........Razorclaw takes it.

    But I think Roadbuster will hang on till the end.
     
  7. spikex

    spikex Nightbird is my bitch

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Posts:
    936
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +2
    Wanted to go with roadbuster just to spite smog and all the work he put into that post, but his argument is irrefutable. Razorclaw it is.
     
  8. Brutus

    Brutus Autobot

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Posts:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +0
    I think some people here have completely underestimated versatile ranged firepower and speed.

    Razorclaw, for his extra 2 points of intelligence and extra 1 point of firepower still lacks the advantages that Roadbuster has:

    Shoulder-Mounted, Self-Targeting, 360 degree arc, Weapon: This means that Razorclaw cannot sneak up on Roadbuster. This also means that Roadbuster can fire this shoulder-mounted weapon WHILE he fires his rifle or throws his smoke/explosive canisters.

    From the OP: "He's armed with a powerful laser-targeted cannon in this mode as well as a series of explosive and smoke canisters (all useable in robot mode)." This means he can use his powerful laser-targeted cannon in his Robot mode too.

    Speed 5 vs. Speed 4: In a fight where one fighter is 100% ranged combat based and one fighter is a mixture of ranged and melee, speed is paramount. If the fighter with melee is faster, he will close the distance and negative the ranged fighter's advantage. However, in this case, Roadbuster is faster, which means he can keep his ranged advantage. While it might sound silly, Roadbuster could turn away from Razorclaw and just flat out, outrun Razorclaw while his self-targeting, 360 degree shoulder cannon fired behind him and beat Razorclaw that way.

    Saying that Razorclaw would be able to be "Intelligent" enough to find a way into melee combat is ridiculous. Razorclaw would have to get the jump on an unaware Roadbuster and due to the clearly recognized weaknesses, Razorclaw cannot do that.

    Let's not forget that these guys are both just as tough, same endurance and same physical strength. Who's to say that the sword in close combat, if Razorclaw could get into close combat, would be enough to "down" Roadbuster anyway? It wouldn't.

    I think this is a close fight for sure, but there's a reason why we don't use swords today and a reason why we don't shoot capsules at eachother today either. Because superior speed and ranged firepower will always carry the day.
     
  9. Tacitron

    Tacitron An exceptional nut sack

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Posts:
    382
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    Holy crap! It's a one vote difference! I'm sure it's coincidence, but everytime I've checked the character getting the last plug has gotten a surge of votes. The time I checked before this Razorclaw was pulling away.

    I wouldn't say it's ridiculous to claim that Razorclaw could manage to get the drop on Roadbuster. If there's any cover at all (and from the setting we know there is) Razorclaw might be able to attack before Roadbuster could get his sights on the deceptikitty. With equal skill and response times, a well planned ambush could be the crucial (if slim) difference.

    That said, I also don't think it's ridiculous to question the effectiveness of a gas weapon. Granted, I've never been in a WW1 trench, but the thought of an airborne corrosive just doesn't fill me with dread like an explosive shell would. What if the wind's against you? Does that mean your cannisters are dangerous to yourself if you fight downwind? I think gas weapons are dubious on other characters as well. Pipes boasts an immunity to his own armament at least (unless he's scratched) but otherwise I see gas as mainly providing concealment more than hardcore damage. Cliffjumper is a notable exception, but his description is more specific - the gas makes metal as brittle as glass. That sounds more dangerous, and the word 'capsule' is never used (even though that might be the delivery system). That's just a bias on my part, sure, but I think other's may have the same mindset.

    I think it really comes down to whether you think Razorclaw gets surprise or not, or if he can get close before weathering some heavy fire.

    I'm glad the contest is as close as it is. I think that's appropriate here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2009
  10. MrFX

    MrFX Collecting never ends...

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Posts:
    3,533
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +19
    It's even now!
     
  11. Omnus

    Omnus needs more time TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Posts:
    1,130
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +2
    This is still going on?

    Okay, let's put this to rest.

    We'll start off with '1' is the minimum that a TF can have in a stat since they don't hand out zeroes. You can find plenty of TFs who have no gun accessory and no ranged weaponry mentioned in their profiles ending up with a '1' in their Firepower stat.

    Now, let's compare a few TFs to illustrate the point:

    Steeljaw (still currently in this tournament) has a Firepower of '1'. We'll discount his additional melee weapon in the form of his jaws, for the solar-powered concern. It was brought up that his Firepower rating is probably so low (despite having noted ranged weaponry) due to his using solar power and that meaning his guns couldn't fire some of the time (the rest of the low rating because his guns probably aren't very powerful).

    Snarl is the next link in the chain of reasoning because he also has a Firepower of '1' and powers up with solar power. He's got a gun, a rocket launcher, and an Energo sword. So maybe he can't power his weapons (and therefore fire them without that extra power, like Steeljaw). But shouldn't that sword add to his Firepower rating as an extra melee weapon (not an integrated one like Steeljaw's). Even unpowered it should add something in, right? Maybe, maybe not.

    Finally, Sludge, who has no solar power dependencies, but also has a Firepower rating of '1'. So, no problems powering his weapons, they're apparently just pea-shooters for some reason. He's also got an Energo-sword too, though, and it would have power. So, if a melee weapon added to the Firepower rating of a TF, shouldn't Sludge have at least a '2'?

    There, it's done. These were all stats made up by Bob Budiansky, who did them all until some point during 1989. We got melee weapons being part of the Firepower stat starting with G2 (the Laser Rods) and it carried on afterwords, but melee weapons don't count towards the Firepower stat in G1.

    That's it.

    Why not? He's only got the one gun, what if multiple opponents have managed to get in close on him? Having another weapon would be nice.

    There's also this thing called stealth. Guns are really loud. Melee weapons, not so much. With his sword giving a tenfold increase in power, Razorclaw is going to cut a TF with average toughness in two in one slice. No really loud noises, and no chance to raise an alarm.

    No, that's called versatility. With Roadbuster being a Ground Forces Commander (meaning he could be leading a very large force), having a wide range of weapons that could pin down and hurt a large number of opponents in almost any kind of terrain he's running or rolling through is going to be more useful to him than one big, powerful gun.

    Roadbuster is a formidable combatant even without having a BFG.

    On to the match itself...

    There is one big problem for Roadbuster here, the terrain. His vehicle mode is nearly as wide as a bus, low to the ground, and doesn't have any flexibility. This means that the trees are going to sharply curtail his speed, which would ordinarily be a useful advantage for him.

    Razorclaw's speed will also be somewhat limited, but his alt. mode is a little more flexible as far as movement in this terrain is concerned. He can much more readily use lateral movement to compensate when the terrain gets too thick straight ahead.

    If there are convenient cliff-faces, then with Razorclaw's noted ability to climb buildings, he'll certainly be able to move through the terrain faster than Roadbuster. Otherwise, they'll probably end up being limited to roughly the same speed.

    Bearing that in mind, we come to ranged attacks, where unless you believe that 6 > 7, Razorclaw has the advantage. With both having the same Skill rating, and both having a similar 'Commander' Function, they'll be hitting each other at the same rate. Since Razorclaw has a superior Firepower rating, and both have the same Endurance rating, if they fight using ranged combat alone, Razorclaw will win.

    If Razorclaw and Roadbuster get up close, it's over really quickly. With the tenfold power increase from Razorclaw's sonic sword, Roadbuster will be lucky if 3 slices doesn't cut him up enough to take him out.

    Looking back at it again, I'm not seeing anything in Roadbuster's profile that mitigates anything I've noted since starting with the terrain in these last few paragraphs.

    So, with combat restricted to ranged weaponry, Razorclaw wins. If the two get up close, Razorclaw wins.

    Since there are no other options with the technology these two are sporting, that means Razorclaw wins, by any realistic assessment.
     
  12. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,095
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +583
    Uh, no. What's happened here is that you've pretended that Razorclaw doesn't have any Firepower, when in fact his weapon is MORE POWERFUL than Roadbuster's.

    And then you decided that Buster's 1 point advantage in Speed will win him the fight, despite the fact that the Speed score clearly applies to alt-mode Speed, and it's been pointed out that on this terrain that Roadbuster's speed will be impeded more than Razorclaw's (who is ALMOST as fast under ideal road conditions... he'a a lion who can run at 90mph. He's not slow!)

    Actually, no... that's not what it means at all. Self-targeting is not a magic detector. Maybe you play too many video games with the self-targeting option on? Also, Roadbuster still has to fire the missile himself, so his multi-tasking options are still limited to some degree. I'm not saying he can't fire both at once, but absently firing blind based on the self-targeting is a surefire way to waste his ammo by accidentally releasing the shot when Razorclaw might actually have both visual and physical cover.
    Uh, no. Read it again. His laser targeted cannon is used in vehicle mode, as well as canisters, which are all usable in robot mode. The canisters are all usable in robot mode. Not the cannon.

    The laser-targeted cannon is only in his vehicle mode. This is easily confirmed by looking at the instruction manual for the toy that the bio was based on. The laser-targeted cannon is not available in robot mode. Show me a picture of the Roadbuster toy dual wielding in robot mode, and I'll consider it.

    Besides the other problems I already pointed out, this is not an open field. If this were in the Monument Valley Desert arena, I would have given this to Roadbuster for the reasons you mention. In a dense forest with lots of uneven ground and rock formations, the effectiveness of conventional firepower is drastically reduced.

    He could drive away and let his shrapnel launcher fire back... I agree. But he wouldn't win that way, because
    A) the terrain wouldn't allow for it
    B) Razorclaw isn't stupid enough to chase him
    C) RAZORCLAW HAS A GUN. A BIG ONE.

    He can't? Why exactly is that. Razorclaw sometimes locks up when he's motionless for too long. This is NOT going to be an issue in this bout... Roadbuster is too gung-ho to keep Razorclaw waiting very long at all.

    But y'know what weakness WILL come into play? Roadbuster's tendency to jump into dangerous situations without thinking. Lots of cover. Uneven terrain. Ambush city. Roadbuster is smart, but sometimes does stupid things because of his impatient nature. Razorclaw is careful, efficient, and has better mobility in the environment.

    THAT IS HOW INTELLIGENCE MAKES YOU A BETTER WARRIOR. And knowing is half the battle.

    The other half is a Concussion Blaster, a Sonic Sword and the skillz to use 'em. ;) 

    What? So NOW Razorclaw's SWORD is no good? You're getting ridiculous.

    Razorclaw has 2 weapons. BOTH are better than Roadbuster's equivalent tools. What you seem to be doing here is simply making whatever shit up that you feel like, and it's starting to get tiresome.... the more you try to defend your position, the more you fall into making ridiculous leaps of logic to defend your point. Give it up, man... give it up. :rolleyes2 

    His gun is more powerful. His sword and claws would only ADD to the destructive power of his raw strength. That gives Razorclaw an UNDENIABLE advantage in close combat. I don't think one slash would kill Buster or anything, but it's certainly going to put a major hurt on him, and if he tries to trade shots at close range, he WILL get the worst of it.

    You're not even making any sense. What does that even mean... "we don't shoot capsules at each other today". Did we ever? I think you could substitute the term bullet, shell, grenade, charge, bomb, canister or whatever, and it would mean the same thing.

    And listen... we're dealing with an cartoon-scifi alien race of robots here... they've been waging a war for several millenia. Their personal physical endurance is such that most of their weapons (unlike our own human weapons) are not one-hit killers. For these reasons, it's ridiculous to argue that they "wouldn't use swords". The fact of the matter is that they DO use swords, and these weapons must be fairly effective, especially when close-combat ensues... which it does... often, with TFs.

    Based on the strength level of Razorclaw and the sword's stated ability to "increase it's cutting power tenfold" by emitting sonic resonance that breaks down enemy armour, that sword is probably the most heavy damage-inflicting weapon in this bout.

    Why does everyone keep considering this weapon to be some kind of airborne "poisonous" chemical agent, a la mustard gas or whatever. VOLATILE GAS. That means IT EXPLODES! Basically what Razorclaw's guns do is fire explosive firebombs at people. He shoots explosive grenades (capsules, canisters, containers, cells, pods, shells... it's all the same) that release a cloud of napalm on impact. How the heck does that NOT sound dangerous?? :inquisiti 

    Probably not so much. If the gas is "volatile" (ie: combustible) then it would probably burn up pretty quickly... basically creating an immediate firestorm in the area of impact. And considering the name of his gun is a "concussion blaster", I think it's probably safe to say that there's some impact.

    While I don't think Razorclaw needs to worry about being downwind so much, I do think that his weapon has the potential to start a hell of a forest fire. It may not really hurt either fighter too much, but it could make things interesting.

    So it's really just the word "capsule" that you're having trouble with? I mean Metroplex's cannons shoot "packets" of anti-matter. "Packets" is the same word used for "packets of sugar"... so should I assume that Metroplex's guns are feeble because they fire mere "packets"?

    "Ow! Ow! Stop pelting me with sugar, Metroplex, you pantywaist! Get a REAL gun!"

    SERIOUSLY, guys... :p 

    I agree that this IS a close match up.

    However, I do really object to some of the frankly bullshit arguments being made against Razorclaw. I like Roadbuster... I really do. But my point of view is based on the factors present in both fighters, rather than buying into this whole mythology that has sprung up around Roadbuster. Talk about an embarrassing pro-Wrecker bias. :rolleyes2 

    zmog
     
  13. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,095
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +583
    Thank you... I've been getting bogged down in the distracting little details...

    You win at concision (funny, right?). Razorclaw would approve. :D 

    zmog
     
  14. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    Posts:
    2,609
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +1
    So...close....32 Razorclaw, 31 Roadbuster.

    ...and over so soon.

    I'll so need to check this when I get home.

    Remember folks, Razorclaw has a slightly bigger gun and is 2 points smarter. Roadbuster only has the advantage of 1 point of speed.

    Rough, close terrain, made for a feline to move through better than a Warthog.

    Razorclaw.

    - Coeloptera
     
  15. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,095
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +583
    :lol  How funny is it that we're now actively campaigning for our "candidate"? :D 

    zmog
     
  16. Brutus

    Brutus Autobot

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Posts:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +0
    If Razorclaw's weaknesses do not apply in this fight, then neither do Roadbuster's.
     
  17. Omnus

    Omnus needs more time TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Posts:
    1,130
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +2
    Yeah, it's not like me very much, is it? Somebody must have hacked my account. Shhhh! Don't tell anyone! :wink: 

    Except Roadbuster's alt. mode is almost nothing like a Warthog, they've both got 4 high-traction tires and a single gun mounting, but that's it really.

    I've never seen the anime that Roadbuster's toy design originally came from, so I don't know what the creators of the design originally intended. but that alt. mode looks more like it's meant for urban warfare. The tires have the chassis sit so low to the ground that the vehicle really isn't going to handle rough, uneven terrain well at all. That sounds generally more like an on-road vehicle. The body of the vehicle is also extremely wide (like I said almost as wide as a bus). That width provides tremendous stability and would help greatly when make sharp turns at high-speeds. I wouldn't be surprised to see a vehicle built like that making right-angle turns at 60 mph without being in danger of overturning (put in some anime physics and it'll be doing that at 90 - 100).

    Yeah, but this is a really high turn out on the vote. I don't know what the highest total number of votes has been so far in this tournament, but this seems pretty close.

    Looking through the votes cast, it looks like we've got most of the regulars with the notable exceptions of Sto (who mentioned about voting for Razorclaw, but hasn't put in any vote by the time I type this) and OpSo. There's several S/Ns that have cast votes that I can't even recall seeing before, much less voting in this tournament.

    Rather interesting.

    And?

    I don't see that making any difference in any of the more reasonable evaluations. So Roadbuster's guns don't jam up. So what? He still facing an opponent with a greater Firepower rating. So, he doesn't get overly-boisterous and doesn't charge into a trap. Again, it doesn't affect anything. That still means both combatants shooting at each other. Razorclaw is still the one with the greater Firepower, with everything else that counts in ranged combat being equal.

    I'm not seeing how Roadbuster's weaknesses affect this fight at all. That really just seemed pointless.

    And I must be back to being myself since I rambled on for a whole paragraph for something that pointless. My lack of brevity is back!
     
  18. omegagoalie

    omegagoalie Cybertronian Puckstopper

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Posts:
    1,907
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    Razorclaw by 1!
     
  19. Tacitron

    Tacitron An exceptional nut sack

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Posts:
    382
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    Maybe if I'd ever actually seen Razorclaw use his guns in the comics or the cartoons I'd be more impressed. As it was, he was an up close and personal melee fighter in both. If his gas gun was so great, why'd he never use it?



    Essentially you're saying yourself that the effect of Razorclaw's weapon might not hurt either of them that much. In your own words, even you're downplaying Razorclaw's effectiveness at range. How can you get so upset that others are doing the same?


    You're stretching awfully far for a comparison here, and you've basically resorted to the H-bomb of all H-bombs. Yes, I'm sure comparing Metroplex's firepower to Razorclaw is appropriate.:rolleyes: 

    No need to shout just because not everyone shares your perspective.

    Ah, I must assume here you're using the term "bullshit" argument in its colloquial sense of "everyone who doesn't agree with my" argument, but I'm so glad we're speaking frankly. Because frankly I'd be a little disappointed if your points were more about investing your pride in your own arguments and less about presenting your perspective and letting people decide for themselves what's "Bullshit" and what's not. :wink: 

    And I'm afraid I don't even know who the Wreckers are, quite honestly. They were after my time, or at least, in the ten year gap I wasn't following Transformers. I'm just offering my perspective based on the descriptions, their stats, and the other perspectives presented here. The stats are so close I personally feel that their descriptions and appearances in other media play a larger role in this contest. But that's just me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2009
  20. Allsparky

    Allsparky Bayou Buah/Ex cross-tie walker!

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Posts:
    1,567
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Location:
    Le Palladium!
    Likes:
    +85
    RazorClaw prances about the dais, "I solemnly swear that I'll shred the competition. Honestly, I'm not lion!" LOL..........this message endorsed by Allsparky!
     

Share This Page