Revenge is coming.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Spoon, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Who would have preferred if they dropped the entire 'Fallen' plot, and actually had the Decepticons attacking Earth in revenge.

    Then Prime could be on some shaky moral ground when the politician man is telling him off.
     
  2. Vexza

    Vexza Nerdicon

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    It would have also been cool if the 'Fallen' were the dead Decepticons and Jazz, too.
     
  3. iamamachine

    iamamachine colonyofcells

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    My guess is they preferred to bring in new guy Fallen to make the movie look fresh otherwise people will just say it is Optimus vs Megatron again so why watch it again. For TF3, they are probably bringing in Unicron and Primus to avoid accusations of the same villain again and again. I prefer new characters every time there is a new movie so there will be new toys rather than repaints. For ROTF, we got that awful Voyager Ratchet repaint that was missing part of the red line on the side. They also repainted the FABs for Ironhide and Ratchet.
     
  4. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Sarcasm? Besides, all the dead Decepticons came back... (well, except Brawl...)
    Solution: Don't bring Megatron back. Have Starscream as a very different kind of villain, with much less of a 'hands-on' approach.
     
  5. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    Try telling that to the people who like the movie and will defend every single decision made to the death.

    People like MacGuffins and Deus Ex Machinas I guess. They need something physical - some artifact - to go chasing. It can't be just a simple war on earth. It has to be the Doomsday Scenario. Where the entire world, no the entire solar system! No the entire galaxy!!! No the entire Universe!!!!! No all the entire dimensions and alternate dimensions and time itself and god and your little dog Toto too!

    Its sad that people can't just be happy with a simple war. Everything has to be taken to the nth degree. There is never an attempt at just a battle whereby people will admit that even if they lose the battle that doesn't mean the war is lost. Look at Batman - they didn't need a world ending gimmick. All that would have happened would that an entire city would be affected. Much more realistic.

    But TF fans need the Well of the Allspark. The Oracle. The Plasma Energy Chamber. The Matrix. The Allspark. The Key to Vector Sigma. Their god Primus or Primacron or Unicron or whoever.

    The plot could have been MUCH simpler and even by being simpler could have been much more effective and better. Instead of having this ridiculous plot - the writers could have just written in an invasion force by the Decepticons. Or the writers could have written in that the TFs were coming in larger and larger numbers to earth and hiding on earth in ALT modes. It could have been a well thought out plot with the Autobots acclimating to earth and blending in while the Decepticons were sabotaging the humans' lives for their ultimate demise.

    Thus why you can see how all the critics called it a ridiculous Raiders of the Lost Ark plot. Where people chased a holy object around the world only to have their messiah be chosen.
     
  6. Vexza

    Vexza Nerdicon

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    No sarcasm. 8D

    Come on, zombie Tformers trying to eat brains = win. (there's your sarcasm, FYI)

    But that shouldn't be the only plotline. Definitely need something else thrown in there to make a good movie.
     
  7. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    -Sam's plotline
    -Growing tensions between USA Government and Autobots
    -Decepticon's assault on Earth, deliberately targeting Sam to bait and hurt the Autobots.
     
  8. Alexander Quinn

    Alexander Quinn Well-Known Member

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    I was fine having the Fallen in the movie, but it would have been nice if they had explained why he was sitting in his creepy ass spaceship for 19,000 years, where the ship was, why suddenly he was thrust into the mythology, why he couldn't go suck some other sun - any other sun seeing as how there are millions of stars out there with no planets orbiting them at all, and so fourth. I don't like that he was just dumped into our laps with Megatron kissing his ass. Seeing Megs as the Fallen's bitch really made him less scary all around. He was a fine villain really, and I like the idea of him actually being a former Prime and all, and he was epic CGI, but it just felt really unplanned. Maybe that was the story elements that got thrown together during the Writers' Strike?
     
  9. Toyzaremine

    Toyzaremine Well-Known Member

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    The irony was there was no revenge by anyone except for Prime. It was another singular episode, no bridge no connection to the preceding and any sequel. I thought the Decepts would win this round with the help of the Fallen. He was all bark and no bite. It seemed like the only criticism taken to heart was making Prime more Prime-like instead of the wimpy version in the 07 movie and throwing in some more robot dialogue.

    If the Fallen was handled better he wouldve been completely badass. Like The Fallen stabbing Prime from behind sending him into stasis lock and using that as the cliffhanger to part 3.
     
  10. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    But that would mean I wouldn't get all the awesome The Fallen toys!
     
  11. 03Mach1

    03Mach1 Reason Has No Voice

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    War on film is simply the History Channel. There has to be a MacGuffin of some sort or there is no reason to emotionally invest in the movie.
     
  12. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    What?

    Plenty of amazing movies get by without pointless MacGuffins.
     
  13. NGW

    NGW Rawr

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    Except the writers set out so that the movie could work standalone and not end with some cliffhanger.

    Which is good IMO. I fucking hate cliffhangers.
     
  14. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    It could've ended with the 'Cons being essentially defeated and retreating, but not before they'd dealt fatal damage to Prime.
     
  15. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Yea I kind of wished they would have saved the Fallen for the third film.

    To get good tension for a second film you need something the bad guys have some shot a pulling off. So Megatron could have been back and this time the ace in the hole could have been he's got a combiner how in the heck are Autobots going to stop him now.

    Then the third film you could have gone for broke with the Fallen and a plot too big for the bad guys to pull off since you are wrapping things up.

    Cutting the film down to a shorter film would have helped. I like action films, but darn even a two and a half hour Predator or Aliens 2 would too long of a film. Action films just seem to work better on the shorter end of the movie scale.
     
  16. Vexza

    Vexza Nerdicon

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    I was thinking that maybe the US Government gets sick of the Autobots and tries to drive them out with force.

    And then they realize they were wrong and then need to find the Autobots to help them drive off the Decepticons before they totally destroy the Decepticons.
     
  17. Acid Wing

    Acid Wing Senior Alien TF Member

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    In retrospect, I think leaving out The Fallen storyline would have been fine as well, but gotta have that cool subtitle right?;) 

    Though, if being serious...he was interesting, but to me, didn't have enough screen time or characterization to feel as if he was an immediate threat. When Prime was down, I felt he could have finished off/captured his sparkless body by himself (e.g dump into the ocean or whatever) with his god-like powers since Megs did the easy part of killing him first.

    Afterwards, it would have been interesting to have him be betrayed by his apprentice, Megatron a la the IDW comic book adaptation. Finally, in the end, we have Jetfire Prime saving the day. The whole "only a Prime can destroy The Fallen" could be loosely explained by Meg's being equal in status to Prime.

    Anyways, I still like the movie despite its flaws. Just wish they didn't stop at a movie trilogy, since this sequel hasn't really reached it's peak yet. Here's hoping the next installment raises the stakes higher with some kind of twist. And if the same writing team are on...please no Unicron, there's plenty of story to tell with more explosions.:) 
     
  18. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    What are you talking about? Saving Private Ryan. U-571. Any number of war movies have had war as their only plot. First Blood.

    It proves that you do not need pointless MacGuffins - that is just lazy writing.
     
  19. vincheng2k5

    vincheng2k5 Ratchet made me premed

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    What plot?

    MORE EXPLOSIONS!!!!1!!!one!!!!1!1!!!!
     
  20. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Surely the subtitle could have simply related to the Decepticons, like in intial fan speculation.
    That's what I thought to. We simply had to accept he was powerful because we were told he was.
    The whole "only a Prime can destroy The Fallen" thing was a really, really lazy plot device in order to save the Fallen for the big battle. Even then, he didn't turn up until after Prime was revived.

    I just hated the meandering around of the second half. It could have been eliminated all together if there was no Fallen, and refined into something more interesting.
     

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