Retcon Checklist

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Joalro, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

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    So I think this conversation is far from over. With the show coming back in mere days, and the newest interview, I think it's time to look at how we go from A to B.

    The newest Q&A very clearly suggests they are taking Exodus (and WFC) into account when they are writing TF: Prime. And although there is an obvious disconnect between the two, they DO appear to be interested in retconning.

    Now, note, there is NO discontinuities between Prime and WFC/Exodus in terms of history is concerned, as TF: Prime has given next to 0 history. The issues arise from where WFC/Exodus WAS, to where we are NOW. So let's take a look at this list of inconsistencies. This is the list of things TF: Prime must answer in order to be tied to WFC/Exodus

    1) Bumblebee had a voice in WFC/Exodus, but he does not have one now. The Q&A suggest that we WILL get an answer to this.

    2) The appearances to ALL the transformers are VASTLY different.

    3) The existence of Dark Energon was not only known in WFC/Exodus, but it was CRUCIAL to the war. In Prime, they seem to have almost no knowledge of it.

    4) No mention of reviving the dead was mentioned in WFC/Exodus. Also, there has not really been any mention of "corruption" or "super powered" Dark Energon infused transformers. Prime Megatron simply was given control of the zombicons.

    5) The war in Exodus originated from class issues, while Optimus in Prime stated that it was primarily over the control of energon.

    6) Where did Bulkhead come from?

    Please feel free to add to this list. I will update this post to include more. I will ALSO update this post as answers are given to us (IF they are given to us) as the show progresses.

    I don't think 2, 5, or 6 should be that big of an issue.
    2 can be explained by a MASSIVE amount of time passing by. Think about how many times the Beast Wars changed forms in a mere 3 years.

    5 can be explained by Optimus trying to simplify the fight (A LOT) to a bunch of children.

    6 can be explained by saying there were a crap load of transformers we weren't introduced. I mean, Cybertron is a planet. With lots of transformers. No way we would have seen them all.
     
  2. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    In Exodus, Bee did loose his voice.

    But yeah if they really want to force them together they have some Trypticon sized holes... They should just ignore it Android be their own thing.
     
  3. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    1) He loses it in Exodus.

    2) Subjective, still the same characters and same continuity, think of different artists working on the same comic.

    3) It has been many centuries, it may've been thought to be wiped out, or they're relearning stuff they didn't know in detail before.

    4) Again, they may not have known everything about it. Also, in WFC, Megatron infused the Dark Energon into Brawl and Barricade.

    5) It may have originated due to corruption in class, but drawn on and evolved into an energy struggle.

    6) Being recruited down the line, that one really isn't a valid question.
     
  4. The F.N.G.

    The F.N.G. Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read Exodus, so all my thoughts are based solely upon WFC.

    Can also be explained as a part of their reformating into Earth vehicles. WFC Bumblebee looked more like a VW Bug than the muscle car he is in Prime.


    Quote from the end of the first Decepticon mission, emphasis mine:
    Starscream: This station's supply of Dark Energon is nearly depleted. I know how to manufacture more.

    I highly doubt something that is refered to as "the Blood of Unicron" would be easy to create. I'm thinking that a lot of the Dark Energon Megatron throws around during WFC is artificial, having a lot of the same properties as the real stuff, but not as powerful. Plus, while we did see Transformers get killed by significant amounts of Dark Energon, we didn't see or have the chance to see any being revived by it after they were dead.

    As for Brawl and Barricade, during the mission the only thing that happens when they get the Dark Energon infusion is a refill on their health, ammo, and a full overshield. No other obvious effects occur at the immediate moment, and we don't see them for much longer to get a good idea of what could have happened. However, there is evidence for lasting effects of Dark Energon on a live Transformer. Megatron is able to blast open sealed doorways using a blast of Dark Energon. Due to it's artificial nature, it's effects would have worn off by the time of Prime.

    Also Brawl appears to have received an upgrade due to the Dark Energon. When we see him during the siege of Iacon, he is being overrun by Autobots. They try to dogpile him, but he throws them off with a Shockwave Blast. Now, when you play as him, his abilities are Dash and Whirlwind (if I remember correctly). No Shockwave attack. Perhaps he got it as a result of the Dark Energon? (I know, that might just be grasping at straws, but hey. Worth a thought.)
     
  5. Scrapmaker

    Scrapmaker Miniautoquintessoboticon

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    Odd, I thought it was confirmed to be a continuity family. Not connected, but each share similarities here and there.
    I could be wrong.
    However, if it were connected with Exodus (as it appears to be), I cannot think of anymore inconsistencies than what have been listed.
     
  6. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    The biggest problem is that in WFC/Exodus, Cybertron was already corrupted with Dark Energon. The reason they all had to leave was a planetary shutdown to purify the core to allow the planet to resume supporting Cybertronian life.

    Then you've got the issue of what is Dark Energon. In all versions, Megatron is already using it before the end of the campaign/story. In Exodus, it's a berserker drug, in the Premium system WFC it's a godhaxxor, in DS version it's a supersoldier serum. So unless Dark Energon is not the same as the Blood of Unicron, there's a major error there.

    Because this series isn't going to be able to help itself, there will also be an issue with the Matrix of Leadership, since in some versions it's not a real tangible object. Similarly, if we get an in the past story/relationship episode what we see further complicates things. If it's Orion Pax following Sentinel Prime, it's Exodus, if it's Optimus (sans Prime) following Zeta Prime, it's WFC (all systems).

    There may be smaller issues, such as the lack of Seekers with Starscream and whatnot, but I'm willing to wait and see.
     
  7. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

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    I created another topic a while back where I created a theory (very well supported by the various media) on what Dark Energon is and why none of the transformers have any memory of the past events.

    It had to do with the fact that Dark Energon is the opposite of Energon (think anti-matter and matter) and so the two are unstable with one another. Since the transformers are Energon based beings, I predict that Dark Energon is unstable with them. So unstable, that even the mere memory of it must slowly be purged from their system. There is a decent amount of evidence to support the theory (though it's far from proven).
     
  8. Ultimate Matt X

    Ultimate Matt X Well-Known Member

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    You know I was just going to start a thread like this, but I'm glad I found it here. I agree that Dark Energon is the biggest issue, though I still like to considering WfC/Exodus in Prime continuity. What exactly does Starscream say in Prime regarding Dark Energon? Does everyone seem to not recognize it?

    Pravus Prime, I don't think the name issues are so much continuity problems, but just name screw ups. Whether you go with WfC or Exodus Orion Pax/Optimus still becomes Optimus Prime and he is the successor to Sentinal (Zeta) Prime. This is one area where I prefer Exodus and liked its use of Orion Pax much more than that WfC's just Optimus.
     
  9. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

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    For an in depth look at the issue of Dark Energon, and my theory behind it, check this out http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-prime-discussion/348592-hasbro-not-mad-my-take-prime.html
     
  10. Xaddion

    Xaddion ...

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    The only thing Exodus can do is be a "bucket of ideas" for Hasbro to pick and choose what to add in Prime. On it's own it's canon is absolutely worthless compared to Prime's. As far as I am concerned, all TF comic books are at a lesser tier of priority in terms of continuity than the movies or tv shows.
     
  11. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    When a mummy Autobot and and daddy Autobot love each other very much...
     
  12. Ultimate Matt X

    Ultimate Matt X Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree, but I don't blame you for having that opinion with the quality and continuity issues we've had from Transformers novels over the years. Well, issues that most people have anyway. I've always been a sucker for novels based on the properties I like so I tend to like all of them well enough. Exodus though I've enjoyed more for the explanation of important Transformers events, regardless of the quality.
     
  13. Fonecrusher

    Fonecrusher Megatron wants YOU

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    Pretty much this, there's no way something like Exodus/WfC can be taken as 100% cannon with TFP, even High Moon said they were thinking more of a G1 as a source when they made for WfC.

    At best they are different retellings of a similar origins.
     
  14. Ultimate Matt X

    Ultimate Matt X Well-Known Member

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    True, but High Moon's agenda is completely different than Hasbro's when it comes to this issue. Also, regardless of your feelings on WfC, I think many of us would agree that it is a simplified version of the events of Exodus. Personally, that is why I like to think of Exodus in Prime continuity more than WfC.

    I think they can be considered 100% cannon, just not 100% factually reasonable canon possibly.
     
  15. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    I thought we had gotten past the "design = art style" fallacy. I hereby present exhibit A:

    There's supposed to be exactly one explicit design change in-story. Can you tell which one?
     

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  16. herugrim

    herugrim Defiler of Energon

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    I'm only about halfway through War for Cybertron, only seen about two or three episodes of Prime, and I only read a handful of chapters from Exodus because I found it unreadable. In truth my opinion cannot carry much weight, but...

    Orion Pax (Exodus) and Optimus (WfC) are two completely different characters. Their personalities, their habits, nothing lines up. In the same respect, the Prime and WfC variations actually seem about the same. That's to say nothing about comparing Zeta to Sentinel.

    I think High Moon trying to channel G1 and Prime trying to channel live action optimus have are much more believable as being related while Irvine's Orion Pax more closely resembled Furman's Optronix.

    If I could stomach the rest of Irvine's book I'm certain I could come up with more, but for now this is enough for me to believe that the differences are irreconcilable. Alex Irvine and High Moon studios each wanted to do their own thing, and neither ended up being quite like what Hasbro had in mind for Prime. If they want to retcon it into one continuity, it’s going to be an exercise in futility.
     
  17. Ultimate Matt X

    Ultimate Matt X Well-Known Member

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    Did WfC really give anyone a personality? I don't say that as a slight on the game, but considering it was more concerned about gameplay than trying to define characters I think it is hard to get much evidence of personality traits from the game.

    I personally have enjoyed the book and I get that others don't, but I think its fairly reasonable to consider it and WfC as dealing with the same characters and same circumstances. Honestly, I think one of Exodus' weaknesses is that the characters aren't very fleshed out, so its hard to see it and WfC as having separate characters as they could all use more attention.

    You mention Sentinel (Zeta) Prime as being an example of the two not matching up, but I think he's a good example how they work. The game gives almost nothing regarding his personality and Exodus slightly adds some more details.
     

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