[Region 4] Contest #7: Snarl vs Smokescreen

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by OptimusSolo, Feb 17, 2009.

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Contest #7: Snarl vs Smokescreen

Poll closed Feb 18, 2009.
  1. Snarl

    58.1%
  2. Smokescreen

    41.9%
  1. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Thats just it....it doesnt say he's in effective at night.

    What it says is that is.....

    Which in all honesty would be true of any devise working on solar energy because with out the sun he's not replenishing the energy used in battle.

    So he's "Vulnerable" because he doesnt have the sun multiplying his strength well beyond his norms nor does he have the sun to continue to recharge his cells after he uses the energy.

    Well "coming in guns blazing" is exactly how he would enter this fight.In the profile you gave it says he's only happy when in the throws of mortal combat and he was written as a commando type in the G2 comics.

    What I see in Snarl is the ultimate Army loner.....Rambo type, able to take any fight threw to the end.

    As for Smokescreen's weapons......

    Smokescreens missiles would bounce off Snarls armored body as if nothing hit it.

    For Smokescreen to use his smoke attack he would have to get pretty close to Snarl.....at least to drive around him in an open area, this alone would give Snarl an excellent opportunity to fire at close range.....A person that likes to fight so much cant be a bad shot and would be able to hit Smokescrean on one of his passes either taking out a tire of hitting him square in the body causeing him to come to a stop.....giving Snarl the chance he need to get his hands or tail on Smokescreen and once that happens its all over.

    As for Smokescreens disruptor rifle.........I believe that a combination of Snarls Armor plating and his solar energy source would help him to risist a hit to almost anywhere on his body except his head.

    So in the long run Smokescreen only has 1 weapon that might help him win and he's going to need to get a really good shot for it to really help him.

    Snarl also had a gun and missal launcher.

    Which is what I said at the begining.

    Smokescreens only winning this one if its at nite.

    And if Snarl was any smarter he would stall till day light.

    Thats true.

    In your opinion.

    Which is obvioulsy not shared by all here.

    And saying that its Snarl wins because he's more popular or because of the preseption of him being a Dinobot is a cop out.
     
  2. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    The one about not having guns you are misquoting me on...but dont sweat it.
     
  3. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Those are your words.....althou I left some of the post out.

    Maybe I mistook your intent but I did qoute your words.

    But incase I mistook your intend..........

    As I pointed out earlier, the lack of a highlited mentioning is not by any means a way of judging wether he has the capacity.

    The fact that his other weapons werent mentioned could be because their standard artillery, nothing special about them or how he uses them.

    And BTW........you gave no comment on my senerio.
     
  4. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    Welcome to my 'Buwha?!?' reaction when Springer beat Trailbreaker.


    Wow, the Dinobot fans must've rallied, there was a 2 vote difference when I voted this morning.
     
  5. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    I ended that with as it were meaning he come in on the attack, not actually shooting also not standing around waiting to be tricked, it doesn't take a lot of fire power to knock some one down and I simply don't think smokescreens weapons would do much but piss snarl off in the short term, as I said smokescreen could win this fight but he'd have to be lucky and not get knocked down or close to snarl to do it and as some one else said smokescreen would have to get close to lay down that smoke well with in tail or sword range. Its close but I would say more than 50% of the time snarl would win a fight between the two of them so I voted for snarl.

    I have no great foundness for either of them so I am voting based on what I think is more likely to happen.
     
  6. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    MONSTER RESPONSE POST!!!

    First off, let me apologize for being such a grump when I escalated this debate. I hadn't had my dinner yet. :) 

    I don't disagree with this... though it is still sort of questionable. I can see 8 being Snarl's normal operating strength. I'm not convinced that he becomes as weak as a kitten under darkness, nor do I think he becomes the strongest overall Autobot just by sitting in the sun.

    However, I don't believe it's comparable to Megatron either. His anti-matter power-up is context-specific thing, not ongoing, and it leaves him heavily drained to use it. Based on Snarl's function, one can assume that Snarl's normal operating strength IS as enhanced by sunlight (or at least normal daylight). The solar power is both a strength and a weakness. 8 is probably where his strength sits normally, though under extremely hot conditions it could rise higher, while at night it drops considerably lower. I think this is probably the most sensible way to look at it.

    The 8-80 thing is simplistic, since it assumes that the 10-point scale is literal, rather than symbolic. Boosting 8 Strength by a factor of 10, as I demonstrated earlier, might only raise his Strength to 10. We don't know what the precise dead lift is for each category... something I admit is a failing of the Tech Specs. I still think they should be considered canonical though, allowing for some common sense interpretation.

    Not true at all. Granted it's a bit awkward because they're always using 10x10' concrete cubes and slabs of plate steel as measuring sticks, but often TF weaponry with the stats given in the profiles is not really any more devastating than equivalent human armaments.

    Some TF weapons are absurdly powerful, others not so much... but overall it confirms something that some fans refuse to acknowledge... that if TF weapons can hurt each other, human weapons CAN hurt TFs too. It's an irregular curve, but it's much the same as how an elegant folded-steel sword can kill you, but a caveman's flint club will kill you just as dead, refinement be damned. :) 

    I believe this is incorrect. For one thing his base operating systems run in the normal way. His physical strength however is augmented by the sun, and depletes at night, to the degree that he is far less effective ("vulnerable" to quote the profile). I would say that his storage system is probably not very effective at all, or at least that exertion depletes these cells incredibly quickly if they aren't supplemented by a steady supply of sunlight.

    Maybe I'm petty, but that IS a small consolation. :) 

    I voted for Jazz too... I see this as a very similar conflict. Smokescreen is very much similar to Jazz, if not quite as cool.

    Tell it to Superman. Tell it to sci-fi/fantasy in general. Again, comic book physics. I can't believe you're splitting that particular hair.

    CORRECTION: It NEVER says that Smokescreen's weapons are weak (Firepower 7 says otherwise). It says that without them, Smokescreen is relatively weak. But there is NO reason for us to expect that Snarl has any special shielding against electro-synaptic attacks. He is resistant to artillery and physical attack... which is why Smokescreen is the perfect guy to take him down. His weapon is powerful, and incapacitates opponents without having to break their armour. WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP IGNORING THIS FACT?

    And as for Snarl's guns and launcher? They suck! Firepower. ONE. Equivalent to Bumblebee. Pea-shooters. Token weapons. No wonder he uses his sword and his tail instead... and I'm sure he prefers it that way. :) 

    Relative to his size and energy output, he certainly does. And why couldn't the minibots be courageous?

    And Brawn IS that strong... the guys NAME is BRAWN. Did you think his high strength was a misprint?? ;) 

    As for what it takes to beat Snarl, you're not thinking. Let's take Brawn for example. THAT would be a much closer fight. Brawn doesn't have the wits to take advantage of Snarl's sluggish pace. He's more agile, but he likes to get in people's faces, do it the hard way. He has negligible Firepower like Snarl, and since both of them are heavily armoured, I think they'd both drop their guns and get to it right away. In that case, I'd give it to Snarl based on the advantages of his sword, and his solar boost.

    Or how about Bluestreak? He's fast, but he's not an imaginative fighter... his firepower is high, but his conventional artillery will be at a reduced effectiveness against Snarl's armour. I'd give Snarl the victory (just as I did Slag vs Bluestreak).

    But against Smokescreen? Different bot, different game.Don't know why that's so hard to see.
    All of those make perfect sense to me except Frenzy's firepower. BB and Hound are small, weak bots who risk themselves on daring solo recon missions against far superior foes without a second thought. That's BRAVE. Galvatron doesn't have to be brave because he's a monster who outclasses most of his opponents. But just think about how many times you've heard the term "Decepticons... retreat!!" from Galvatron or Megatron, and that should answer your question. :) 

    We're effectively talking about the same thing. I think the Endurance in TFs is a sort of catch-all that factors in things like physical endurance, armour and efficiency. I think that Bumblebee has Endurance even as high as 7 is probably due to his fuel consumption.

    It's not an exact science. Trailbreaker's fuel consumption is high, but perhaps his fortitude/resilience is high too. Or perhaps his Force Field is a factor in that?

    No matter what you say, the Firepower 1 has to stand for something. Snarl has lousy guns and a lousy aim. Smokescreen is probably one of the hardest Autobots to get a clear shot at. Do you seriously think that Snarl would be likely to get the drop on the sneakiest Autobot, and not the other way around? This fight would probably start with Snarl getting duped into looking in entirely the wrong direction, and then getting shot in the back! :) 

    7 is a good endurance score. Bumblebee has appropriately high endurance, based on his weak frame, but high efficiency.

    I don't think so. The original Profiles are more consistent than any of the media, and barring a bit of common sense interpretation, the Tech Specs are remarkably consistent for the first few years. And Smokescreen's weapons are not "weak". They just don't deal direct damage, but are still very effective.

    He has guns. He uses them. He's a gun-toting maniac, possibly with a high rate of fire... the TF equivalent of a John Woo character. He hasn't been played that way in the fictions since then, but I can totally see that as a valid take on the character... moreso than having drills for hands like in All Hail Megatron. Still, the 9 is pretty high...
    Because he's strong? What are you looking for here? Do you have some reason to doubt that Shrapnel is strong? Because he's an Insecticon? That involves presumptions on your part that are incorrect.


    HIS. NAME. IS. BRAWN.
    Where have you been? His profile very specifically states that he is the 2nd strongest Autobot (presumably out of the original Ark crew). There's really no need to justify that at all.

    Are you just incapable of believing that Minibots can be good at anything? Some of the strongest 84-85 Autobots are minis (Brawn, Gears, Huffer, Warpath).
    You have some funny ideas about bravery. Galvatron has a 9 Courage, pretty good... and yet frequently when he runs into serious opposition, he's backed off, acceded or retreated. Unicron throws a little pain his way, and Galvatron does whatever he wants. Galvatron wields tremendous power, and yet how brave would he be without all that power? That's why it's easy to see why Bumblebee could be braver than Galvatron.

    Hardly... without them, we wouldn't have Transformers as we know it. And so far, you haven't offered many counter arguments that stand up to scrutiny.

    Fixed. ;) 

    I don't think Smokescreen wants to get shot by anyone, even Snarl's token side arm. However, he probably WON'T because at range Snarl sucks, and Smokescreen is not going to let him land a shot regardless. It's just NOT likely to happen.

    As for toughness, Smokescreen's weapon is not artillery. It's powerful (7), and attacks a TF's nervous system... so all of Snarl's armour and "toughness" will not count for anything. Seriously... pay attention here, guys!

    "Vulnerable to nighttime attacks due to his weaker state."

    I'd say that pretty much confirms what we've been saying. The longer profile goes into even more detail, and let's remember that the short profiles are condensed from Budiansky's long profiles. This is the strongest, most original, most direct canon that Transformers has.

    I think you're really stretching it now. The way the profile reads, it suggests that he doesn't have access to his super-strength without the sun. Pretty obvious. You're reading a lot more into it than is there.

    Actually seeing as how he has bad firepower and skill, I think his thirst for combat would drive him to advance into close combat range. None of the Dinobots (other than Swoop, who loves to get as close as possible even when attacking from the air) is much of a shooter... they're all physical powerhouses. "Guns blazing" is not very in-character. I think he'd start shooting only when he realized Smokescreen is not going to stand and face him bot-to-bot... and by that time, he probably wouldn't be able to see anymore.

    You're probably wrong. :) 

    Did you even read his profile? You're not demonstrating that you even have a clue. His missiles don't deliver an explosive payload. They create a sensory "cloud" that blocks and confuses sensor arrays. So Snarl will not only be blind, but also confused, and his missile won't be worth anything.

    I think you are really overrating Snarl's aim. The guy carries a sword, and is likely to attack physically, especially if Smokescreen comes closer to taunt him. But a speedy car is still going to fare better than a really slow bot/dino, and Smokescreen's smoke is magnetically attracted to it's target... so it'll find Snarl, and it'll stick.

    Smokescreen's extremely skillful, and probably a good shot... and Snarl is a REALLLY easy target. He's big, slow, and doesn't move around a lot. The thick armour will not shield Snarl from an electrical disruption... don't know where you got that idea. Also, how exactly does solar-enhanced strength save him from the disruptor? You're not making any sense, man!

    This is why this vote is bugging me. Half the voters are voting like Dinobots. All gut, no brain. :) 

    And saying that its Snarl wins because he's more popular or because of the preseption of him being a Dinobot is a cop out.[/QUOTE]I disagree. The Dinobots have an unfair and undeserved reputation as being flat-out invincible. A lot of people vote that way just because they can't be bothered looking any deeper, and hand it to the Dinos regardless.

    I KNOW! I voted for Trailbreaker too! Though I honestly think Springer would have made a more challenging foe than Snarl here.

    Your scenario assumes that Snarl is very proficient, quick and shows initiative, and that Smokescreen is slow, clumsy, thick and easy to attack... when in fact the situation is inverted. There is no reason for Smokescreen ever to get close enough to Snarl to get touched, and with Smokescreen's powers/weapons, Snarl is NEVER EVER GOING TO SHOOT HIM. And by never, I mean the odds are just really really low.

    Not that it matters now that the vote has ended... either one of them is going to get squashed by Galvatron. But for the record, this was probably the most inaccurate, unrepresentative bout of the tournament so far.

    zmog
     
  7. iconscons

    iconscons Well-Known Member

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    ZMOG:

    I don't feel like arguing this anymore. Some people take the tech specs/profiles seriously, some don't. Different outcomes will come from different axioms. We're not going to change our axioms, so lets just drop it.
     
  8. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I didnt say Snarls strength was comparable......just the fact that sunlight adds to his normal strength ranking as the black hole does Megatron.

    Which is pretty much what I said....."I would say that TF tech is at the very least the equivalent of earth counterpart tech."

    And I would say that the fact that he can maintain a strength and endurance of 9 ,which is what the tech spec says, and that rank is without the added strengths he gets from sunlight.......that its an indication of an effective storage system.

    At night he's weaker because he doesnt have his "sun-boosted" strength but he's still running around with a strengths of 9.

    The tech does not say he dips below normal strength and endurance.

    Vulnerable is not synonymous with ineffective.

    The Dinobots are a crack commando team.......you dont get a spot on such a team if your a bad shot.

    I'm not suggesting that he could hit a flea on a dog but he'll hit the dog.

    It was for him in the G2 comics....and I believe his DW profile also says as much.....I'll have to look that one up to be sure.

    I disagree.

    Yep.

    Because I disagree with you?????

    No "cloud" unless your useing that word metaphorically....they "shatter into thousands of shards that produce a variety of radio signals, magnetic fields and infrared waves,wreaking havoc on the radar and guidance systems"

    If you believe those missiles would be effective on Snarl.......I dont.


    In your opinion

    Its my opinion.

    I'm not rocket scientist but I believe that the electrical current that is generated from solar energy is not exactly the same as normal electricity.

    Smokescreens disruptor is designed to disrupt normal electricity.
     
  9. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Well, you get a 5 day break anyway, since I'm leaving town, and won't be able to vote in these things. Let baseless nonsense prevail!! ;) 

    I'm not exactly sure what your axiom even is, besides personal preference. It's not like Snarl has gotten a lot of attention in the supplementary fictions. In the absence of definitive evidence, the Tech Specs (ie:OFFICIAL HASBRO CANON) are really most of what we have to go on. It's absurd to cast them out completely, or so arbitrarily.

    But most of our argument has been centered around the nature of his solar power... which as I've pointed out several times now, is almost irrelevant to the outcome. Snarl's hitting power means nothing if he never hits... which he probably wouldn't.

    That's what I meant. I don't think the two systems are comparable, as Megatron has to go out of his way, and weaken himself to use the black hole boost for one big blast. Snarl is using his solar boost almost constantly (except indoors and at night) and without penalty, so it can be considered a part of his basic functioning.

    Sorry, I misunderstood. That I agree with. It certainly surpasses Earth tech, though in terms of efficacy, isn't always notably superior.

    I believe what you're implying there is contradictory.

    It's 8, isn't it? And no, I don't think that's how it works.

    Uh, it does say "Although he can use the same fuel the other Autobots use, he operates at only a fraction of his strength when he does." I think that makes it pretty damn clear... it's hard to be MORE clear than that! Based on that sentence, I'd say you'd have to be stretching things pretty far to read it any other way.

    Vulnerable means vulnerable... which is considerably less than "formidable" "impervious" "unstoppable" or even "strong". And you know what... it doesn't just say "vulnerable"... it says "extremely vulnerable". Again, that's hardly ambiguous wording. When Snarl is without the sun, he becomes extremely vulnerable. This doesn't mean a kick-ass Dinobot warrior with great stats. This means he's practically a liability.

    Again, this is utterly baseless. For one thing, the Dinobots are guileless infants with enormous strength (if you go by the cartoon), or a bunch of thugs and subordinates that are part of Grimlock's team because they'd probably be in the brig otherwise. They specialize in close-quarters combat, brawn and overkill... there is NO reason to believe that any of them are a "good" shot just because they're on a team together.

    I'm saying that Snarl is undeniably low on speed, agility and skill. To assume that he'll be able to take out an artful dodger like Smokescreen at range with his token gun, while blinded and sensor scrambled is nothing short of ridiculous.

    Also, note that Smokescreen's weapons are all "area-effect"... so even if he didn't have Skill 9 and Snarl wasn't so big and slow, missing would still be almost impossible. :) 

    "Cloud" metaphorically speaking, as the air would be full of tiny shards each giving false signal noise. Don't forget that Transformers count radio transmission, electrical and magnetic sensitivity among their normal natural senses... so Snarl would be experiencing some degree of sensory disorientation. Honestly, I don't see Snarl as the type to use a lot of sensor tech, but at the very least he would be off his game, and his missile would be next to worthless.

    That's not how it works. Solar energy is simply HEAT... which is then converted into an energy we can use... I don't know what powers Snarl's muscles exactly, but his brain still functions on the same basic electromagnetic system as any other Transformer's... therefore he would be equally affected by the disruptor rifle and be stunned.

    Look at it this way... it doesn't matter what food you eat, or what steroids you're on... a taser still shocks the hell out of you. Now imagine a military grade taser designed for use on giant robots, specifically to attack their nervous system and cause breakdowns. Without specially-designed insulation (as mentioned in Smokescreen's profile), Snarl is taking a nap.

    zmog
     
  10. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    I assume nothing, I have seen/read dinobots fight, I read the techspecs and to me smokescreen isn't the clear favoret you believe he is, he is fast and skillful, not as good as jazz but still, I simply think that smokescreen is going to take time to wear down snarl and finish him off where snarl really only has to get one or two good hits in to win, to me that give snarls the edge as smokescreen has to work a lot harder to win this at the start, if this fight goes beyond 5 monite smokescreen has it, I just don't think it will.

    No I think that was trailbraker vs springer this is simply people thinking dinobots are a hell of a lot harder to kill than standard autobots.
     
  11. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Harder to kill, yes. Harder to defeat with trickery and specialized technology that incapacitates the target... no.

    Look at it in gaming terms. At the outset of this fight, both characters roll for initiative. Snarl's initiative bonus is +0. Smokescreen's is +19. Snarl is just never going to win that initiative roll, and Smokescreen is almost as skilled as Jazz, and twice as sneaky.

    And again... the electro disrupter will take Snarl down faster than a laser rifle or missile launcher. Smokescreen is the perfect bot to exploit all of Snarl's weaknesses... I don't know why that's hard for many to accept.

    Anyway, I have to go guys... got a trip to NYC to prep for. See you next week, when I'll take you to task for all the bad votes you cast in the next 5 bouts. :D 

    zmog
     
  12. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    Sorry but that really is in your eyes not every ones, I just think snarl can take a beating and keep going even with an electro disrupter, say it does work right off the bat all you end up with is a rampaging dinobot, dodging a fighter is one dodging some one or thing on a rampage is quite another.

    Take down or kill put it how you like, snarl can keep going after a lot of hits smokescreen can't, people see that and vote Snarl.

    Kinda off the point here and its not directed at any one but what does skill mean in techspecs? I mean really cos every one seems to think its fighting skill but what if say jazz has a high skill rating cos he is the best baker out of all the autobots and smokescreens skill is he's very good at knitting? Not a lot of point to that its just soemthig that's kinda bothering me.
     
  13. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I dont agree...........and I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.

    I dont see how.

    He is naturally a powerhouse with strength and endurance ranking at 9.He maintains that on the solar power he absorbs durring daylight hours.

    Thats his regular ranking.

    Durring the day his strengths and endurance multiply, to a questionable degree, but his normal level is 9.

    To maintain such a powerhouse level and to carry around his own weight he would have to have an effective storage system.

    Looks like 9 to me and its listed as 9 on this site that translates the specs.....
    Transformers Tech Specs

    In your opinion...theres nothing in the spec to indicate that he's weaker then his normal strengths at night.

    It says he's vulnerable because of his weakened state and that would be the case if he doesnt have access to his sun boosted powers.

    It is clear.......when he uses regular fuel....but we're not talking about him useing regular fuel.

    We've been talking about him useing stored solar power.Which means he would be running at regular strengths.

    And based on your last post I'd say your stacking the odds in Smokescreeens favor.

    Which is due to the fact that he does not have access to his sun boosted powers.

    No it does not.
    I dont see the words "extremely vulnerable" just "vulnerable".

    The bases for this is from the comics.

    Which I dont

    Thats if you believe he would be blinded and scrambled....I do not.

    That much I can see.

    Ok now that I understand that a bit better I can see how Smoke's weapon could hurt Snarl.....but I still feel that Snarls heavily armored body would deflect most of the disruptive effectiveness.

    Particularly in Dino mode and even in robot mode his extra thick armor would be able to withstand a body hit......but a hit to the head and I agree Snarls would go down.
     
  14. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Sigh... one more post. :) 

    I think it's a general stat that describes their level of aptitude or excellence in their general field. It's true that does leave it kind of vague, but Jazz for example is described as being a crack shot, so probably his high skill reflects that. Wheeljack is a master stunt driver and a brilliant inventor. High Skill. Ratchet is a gifted surgeon. High skill.

    Snarl... well, I don't take it to mean that he's a BAD fighter... just that he's a brute fighter. An undisciplined brawler that relies on strength and armour rather than anything resembling finesse. Hence I doubt he's a good shot, though I wouldn't want to get close to him. However, in a sword fight between him and Grimlock, he's going to get destroyed because Grimlock not only matches his strength, but also is a much more skilled warrior.

    I don't think so... I think 9 is what is strength is at normal levels of augmentation. His solar charge is always on, so he's always a bit boosted, unless he's under dark conditions, when he gets weaker. I think his strength varies depending on the brightness of the sunlight, but it's always a factor.

    Megatron hardly ever uses his black hole link, so I consider that a special condition that only adds to his general stats on rare occasions. That's why I don't think Snarl's solar power is an "add-on" to his regular stats like Megatron's Black Hole Link.

    On the other hand, Megatron does have 10 Firepower, so maybe that includes his Black Hole boost
    Yes, and calling him "EXTREMELY vulnerable" to me very clearly suggests that at night he actually becomes substantially less powerful... to the point that he's almost a pushover. It doesn't say "relatively vulnerable" or "less powerful"... it says "extremely vulnerable". Without a qualifier, this statement becomes an absolute.

    Until he's cut off from the sun... say, by a giant, thick, sticky smoke cloud?

    If he's cut off from his recharge source, every swing he makes is going to start draining that supercharge... and Snarl's the kind of guy who when blinded like that is liable to start swinging wild and angry, I would say.

    Looking at it that way, there's no way he wouldn't be weakened by Smokescreen' cloud, at least to some degree... he wouldn't have constantly replenishing endurance for that matter either.
    Please read the extended profile. :) 

    There is no sensible reason to believe otherwise. Smokescreen's attacks blind their opponents. Snarl sees with his eyes. He WILL BE BLIND.

    Smokescreen's weapons scramble Transformers's systems. Again, there is NO reason to arbitrarily assume that Snarl will be immune to this effect. No reason at all.

    His armour is only designed to repel artillery and physical attacks. It is extremely likely that the disruptor would bypass this... the thick metal hide wouldn't provide insulation from such an attack by any logic that I can see.

    Because of the web-like nature of the disruptor (again, read the profile) I don't believe it matters where it hits him. It's more like a disruption field than an actual pinpoint shot, so it probably affects his whole body simultaneously.

    Okay, now I'm REALLY going. I have a bus to catch! :) 

    zmog
     
  15. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    Think of it as using a Taser on a man in full plate armor.

    I'm not a rocket scientist either, but solar energy is electricity generated by thermal reaction. Solar panels take light/heat and convert it to electrical flow.

    As an aside, electricity is electricity, wind, solar, coal, nuclear, it's all the same product at the end, there are no "different kinds of electricity", it's just how it's generated to begin with that's different.
     
  16. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Till you get back.

    Hardly.

    They arent always stationed on a planet revolving around a sun.

    The way I see it the fact that his profile high lights the fact that he multiply in strengths "tenfold" and endurance to "limitless" degree is an indication that the ranking of 9 is what his powers are with out a sun.

    Which means nothing.

    If such is an add on for one character then it is for all.

    Its sopose to be a general ranking system which reflects their powers and abilities under normal situations.

    If Megatrons special ability to link to a black hole is not reflected in his level of 10 then the sun is not reflected in Snarls level of 9.

    I guess thats possible...but unlikely.

    And again the tech spec does not say "extremely vulnerable" in his tech specs and you have been arguing in all these threads that the spec is the only source of absolute canon.

    And as I said for Smokescreen to use the "smoke cloud" attack he would have to drive around Snarl at a fairly close distance.

    Giving Snarl the perfect opportunity to shot him square in car mode and once he does that he can get his hands on him.

    I dont think so.....Slag maybe but not Snarl.

    Snarl has not been depicted as the "berserker" of the team.The way I see it he's more likely to sit back and do nothing then act wildly.

    See above.

    And I see nothing in the profile that indicates that Smokescreens attacks "blind their opponents".

    "radio signals, magnetic fields and infrared waves, wreaking havoc on the radar and guidance systems of the enemy"

    But nothing about interfering with optical sensors.

    Now the Smoke itself might interfere with optical sensors....if he can use it.

    I see no logic in designing a armor thats only designed to repel artillery.

    The way I see it, the armor would have been designed to repel a great verity of enemy attacks including some electrical disruptor insulation.

    Again its not in the spec.......but.........

    Then I would say its only going to effect him if he's shot in robot mode.

    Have fun bud.:thumbs2: 

    I did.....I've seen people withstand Taser hits while in cretin armors.
     
  17. krazy83karl

    krazy83karl Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is missing something here in my opinion. Snarl may infact get his strength increased ten fold, but that's ONLY strength. His speed doesn't increase, firepower doesn't, endurance doesn't, nothing else. So him being in the sunlight really isn't a factor in this fight because Smokescreen will never get close enough to be caught.

    My only question is that if Smokescreen has the ability to take down Snarl. He has the disruptor rifle to immobilize him, but from there can he destroy him? That's something I've still been pondering myself.
     
  18. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    You talk about everybody is "missing something" and then you go and do the same thing:lol 

    According to the profile provided at the begining of this thread his endurance increases to a limitless degree.

    And endurance is a factor in a fight.
     
  19. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    I still think you guys missed this one big time...sorry
     
  20. krazy83karl

    krazy83karl Well-Known Member

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    Point very well taken, I've been known to do that. I regress my previous statement. :dunce 
     

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