[Region 3] Contest #8: Devastator vs Laserbeak

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by OptimusSolo, Feb 10, 2009.

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Contest #8: Devastator vs Laserbeak

Poll closed Feb 11, 2009.
  1. Devastator

    66.2%
  2. Laserbeak

    33.8%
  1. iconscons

    iconscons Well-Known Member

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    I have fought many mosquitoes in my life. They had the ability to fly away too. None of them have ever killed me.

    And the vote doesn't mean laserbeak has a 30% of winning. It means that 30% of our voters believe he has a >50% of winning.

    I like this tourny, but for those 30% of you, you're either lying or stupid. I'm sorry to be so negative, but I feel like you're intentionally screwing up the vote just for kicks.
     
  2. llamatron

    llamatron OFFICIAL MMC REP TFW2005 Supporter

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    Mosquitoes are actually responsible for the deaths of thousands if not millions of humans.
     
  3. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    Yes, but who's smarter? Lazerbeak or a mosquito? You can't just think of anything that matches 1 criteria and go with it. It has to fit all criteria to be reasonable and logical. For a start, Mosquitoes don't have guns. Two, Mosquitoes try to land on you; Beak doesn't. Catch my drift?

    Smog, i see your point in the run away, reload would be considered a loss, but when you're fighting one on one to the death, who really cares? Long as you stay alive, it counts as a win. Right?

    And even cowards know that when you have Dev trying to kill you, you fight back, as he'll have flattened everything you could possibly hide in, and you'd be an easy target if you run. Simple.

    Stovokor, If combiners are so powerful, as most of you seem to believe (not that it isn't true), then the individual cons would be a lot less threatening.

    Look, i want to get this really clear: I'm not saying Lazerbeak would win easily, just that people shouldn't dismiss him instantly.
     
  4. iconscons

    iconscons Well-Known Member

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    You got me. Clearly I was wrong. I apologize. I guess Laserbeak is the favorite against devastator. The more I consider it, the more it does kinda make sense.
     
  5. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    Final Count

    Contest #8 is official with a final score of

    Devastator - 49
    Laserbeak - 25

    Again, discussion can continue but all voting for this contest is FINAL at this time. For the overall grid or the next matchup check the "March Madness Tournament" or the "[Region 4] Contest 1" threads.
     
  6. decepticonjon

    decepticonjon japness for balls

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    totally laserbeak
     
  7. decepticonjon

    decepticonjon japness for balls

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    did laserbeak win
     
  8. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    And yet the 6 of them would well out number Lazerbeak.

    And flying wouldnt be much of an advantage.

    My point is that even if Lazerbeak got lucky and forced Devestator down....his 6 components would then gang up on Lazerbeak and cook him.
     
  9. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Your good authority isint so good.

    Omega could not have died of old age....he was a newly constructed robot in the comics, given life by Optimus and the Creation Matrix.:crazy: 
     
  10. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Well, I would say no. I remember I was bullied once in elementary school. A bigger kid was pushing me around and I ran away. Now, 25 years later, if he dies of prostate cancer, does that mean I defeated him? Or if I found him and shot him dead, does that mean I "won" our encounter back in school?

    The scenario you're suggesting for Laserbeak seems too much like an ongoing campaign, and frankly, one doomed to failure. Eventually, he'd just take a hit.

    Wha!? That makes NO sense. I don't agree with that at all. If Laserbeak sees Devastator coming for him, based on his cowardly personality, he's going to get the hell out of there. Leave. Vamoose. Abort. Withdraw. Flee. Perhaps fight another day, but survive this encounter. That's how a coward thinks. And I should know... :) 

    I agree with this... though I guess there is a theory that suggests that having 6 reasonably skillful bots firing at you is a more immediate threat than one big slow robot firing at you. At least if you're relatively weak like Laserbeak.

    Not that we have hard and fast rules in the this competition, but I think it was tacitly agreed upon in one of the earlier fights that if a Combiner were to be forced to discorporate in order to win, that would be considered a forfeit... which sort of makes sense since then it's no longer a one-on-one match.

    Er... that was a joke.

    zmog
     
  11. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    And I would argue that it could never be a "one on one" match because of the very nature of a "Gestalt personalty".

    But I guess thats a different debate.

    I figured.....but its one that I felt didnt apply since it wasnt possible.

    Maybe a dead battery joke would have been better
     
  12. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    Well, if he dies of prostate cancer, you didn't directly kill him, so a loss for you it would be. But If you shot him, then you were the one who killed him, so...(don't get any ideas, i ain't resposible). You may have lost the battle, but the war continues...And we all know those who win the war are the ultiimate winners.

    About what i said in the coward section, i just meant that any sane being, while running from Devastator, would realize that you can't run forever from him;you'll get shot down eventually. So you run away far enough to somewhere that's not yet destroyed, hide there and fight back. Sure, he's a coward, but Even Lazerbeak would realize this. Run away:D ie. Hide:D ie. Fight back:p robably die, but there's still a chance at least.
     
  13. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    That is a different debate, and I'm not saying that a Combiner can't be the sum of his parts even separated... but early on we kind of threw out that idea because it confused the dynamic.

    And even if a combiner is a "gestalt personality" then that would imply that he IS an individual so long as the components are in place, and when they separate, he simply ceases to be. Following the definition of "gestalt", meaning a whole object or entity that is greater than the sum of its parts, Devastator is not just 6 Constructicons sharing a mindspace, but rather entirely an entity of his own.

    But that's not as funny as the idea of Omega Supreme just keeling over from old age before Buzzsaw shoots him. :confused2 

    Hence the expression, You've won the battle, but not the war.

    As soon as Laserbeak exhausts his energy supply (which, as noted in his techspecs, could throw him into such a panic that he actually shuts himself down!!), and runs away... that's a loss. When he comes back, it's a rematch. Surviving alone is not enough to constitute victory. And if Laserbeak should be allowed to leave and refuel, then Devastator should get the same benefit, disassembling so the Constructicons can rub the superficial scorch marks off their hides, and make minor repairs.

    You see, there's no way that Laserbeak should be expected to take this victory... unless he is circumstantially given some HUGE advantage or cheat, which also defeats the purpose of this poll.

    That still doesn't work. The whole point of being a coward is that as long as you can run and hide rather than fight against frightening odds, you will. That's what makes a coward. That is ALWAYS what Laserbeak will do. There's no reason to expect that Devastator will destroy every place on Earth trying to find him... he's simply not fast enough or smart enough to ever catch him. We're talking about an encounter here.

    If Laserbeak is smart, he'll run... losing the match, but surviving long enough for it to blow over... the truth is though, he's prone to panic... so as soon as the fear gets a hold of him, reason is going to go right out the window. He might even shut himself down (ie: faint)

    Yes, he's THAT much of a dork. :) 

    Honestly, Laserbeak is limited to 3 options here...
    A) Run away immediately
    B) make an initial attempt to fight, then flee as soon as things look bad
    C) fight and ultimately die

    All of the above options constitute a loss for Laserbeak. Personally, I would give him a little bit of credit and go with option B.

    zmog
     
  14. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Who, in my eyes, is never truly defeated till all of his components are down,.

    But as stated......its an other debate.

    Which isint funny because it isint even remotely possible:confused2 :confused2 :crazy: 
     
  15. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    Maybe we need to clear this up for the second round.

    Any contest between a combiner and someone else is only that.

    If it is Devastator vs Grimlock for example, than if Devastator falls into his components Grimlock has won. The contest was NOT hook, scrapper, long haul etc against Grimlock. Devastator can only win AS Devastator.

    Now, I guess there is some gray area here. Let's say the fight starts out as Devastator vs Grimlock and at one point for some reason he breaks into his component parts. I suppose, as long as he never attacks as the 6 component bots, and immediately reforms into Devastator before continuing the attack, he would still be eligible to fight.

    But, I think the bottom line is that Devastator is a different person than hook, scrapper et al. So, he can only win AS Devastator.
     
  16. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    I concur with Solo. As soon as Devastator is separated and is anything less than 6 Constructicons fully integrated, then he is no longer Devastator. He ceases to be one entity and becomes 6 very different entities. Probably more accurate phrasing would be "The Constructicons are never defeated until all of the components are down." Devastator is a Constructicon, in a sense, but every Constructicon is not Devastator.

    That's my interpretation (and Solo's) at least. It's sort of a philosophical distinction, rather than a wholly pragmatic one, but in keeping with the use of the word "gestalt" at least.

    Reeeeelax... part of the humour is to be found in the fact that the entire proposition is fundamentally ridiculous... I think you need to work on your sense of humour a bit. ;) 

    zmog
     
  17. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Your words in "BOLD" is where I begin to disagree....I would argue, "that which was made can never truly be unmade"

    but thats a debate I'd rather not start.....mainly because there's just no way to prove my way of thinking.

    Its just how I see it.

    That may be.....for me for something to be funny, even the ridiculous, has to be at least remotely possible.

    The same joke would have been funny to me if we were talking about the cartoon versions of the same characters.
     
  18. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    So, exactly which member edited my post? :mad 

    Oh, and i'm not going to bother about the above arguments anymore. I suppose i was expecting too much from cowards, and smog would have knowledge in that area, but...

    ...As long as we accept that Dev can't win if he is forced to permanently split, and that a blind combiner is useless (nearly, at any rate), then Lazerbeak would win with one (or a few, i guess) shots to the eye. Simple. Game Over.
     
  19. Scrawny Oboe

    Scrawny Oboe Banned

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    I'm pretty sure there's about six pages of legitimate college level argument posted here between the insults and horrible web misuses of English, but you people do know that...the economy is tanking right...and there's a war going on?
     
  20. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1 Or just 'A1' for short...

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    I hope that wasn't intended as a pun.
     

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