@TheSoundwave
Then again TFS is a fictional, so it doesn't have to follow the scl to be life forms. It's nice though, but doesn't have too.

 

@flamepanther
Even the levers, gears and pullys naturally occur. For it to naturally occur it has to be biological, being made out some type of cells. It would be impossible for it to do so if it didn't appear naturally. If the Transformers naturally occur then that means they're biological machines and not just sentient ones. Nonliving sentient machines don't just naturally occur. If a machine does natural occur ( already has. Carbon base life forms are a great example) then it will be an organism/life form. Not just some machine with emotions.

Then again some scientists believe that we came from rocks and rocks aren't living. But the transformers are. Again their not just sentient, but life forms too. The whole robotic organism thing has probably been recon to g1. AI and machines even sentient ones don't just occur natural. Thus, again making them biomechanical beings.

 

@Soundwaver Do us all a favor, and don't post several times in a row. Use the Multiquote feature.

 

Nope, at least not yet

It’s not ONLY for carbon life, but since we only KNOW about carbon life we can not say it the criteria in question will be useful at all in determining life of other types, if there is any

As I mentioned to you before that depends on what universe you talking about

There are millions or billions of people that cannot reproduce

I’m sure they still think they’re alive

I’ve been reading through a lot of this and I can’t keep putting this quote button but I will say this

Just about everything you post it here doesn’t apply to every continuity

There are continuities or at least one in which were transformers reproduce asexually and not artificially

And even artificial reproduction doesn’t discount what can be called life

 

Sentient machines, not organisms.

 

I don't really care if they're alive or programmed- just as long as their design can be made into a decent toy for my collection. ^_^

 

As I said before, I'm not reading or replying to any comments for a long time.

Anyway, some want them to be sentient machines, while others like them to be robotic organism.

 

@flamepanther
I forgot to mention that the Transformers were just robots at first. The whole thing about them always being sentient robots is not true. They are evovled. Mindless robots》sentient robots》living/biological ( again biological does not mean organic) robots. Anyone who wants to go back? Fine. Let's go even futher. Them having a biology makes them stand out from other race of sentient robots in media. I agreed with Reduxis. It baffles me that some people want them to be mere robots. I mean sure robots with emotions, but still just machines.

Ps. This doesn't mean I saw any of your comments. I didn't.

 

And yet, here you are, reading and replying to people's comments, extremely actively.

Silicon, not silicone (silicone is a polymer compound of silicon, oxygen, carbon, etc.). Sorry to be pedantic, that's a distinction that always sticks in my craw.

Humankind/organics don't evolve or adapt quickly because we're fluid or carbonic or maleable (think of a human body on a blacksmith's anvil and you get an idea of how maleable we aren't, for example), we adapt and evolve because we have a relatively short period of time between generations (as another example, viruses and bacteria reproduce and die off extremely quickly by human standards, and they can adapt around vaccines and antibiotics in a staggeringly short period of time). Evolution occurs in organics through mutation, slight changes from one generation to another that stack up and eventually allow some offspring to better thrive in certain niches. I don't think there's anything to say a silicon or metallic based evolved life form wouldn't do the same (though I say this with nothing but fiction to base the conclusion on), but if we think about how long lived and slow to reproduce (in many continuities they're a dying or decimated race) cybertronians are, that could be an indication of a very slow evolutionary path. I sort of see it as the other way around, that their lifespan would determine their evolution, but their lifespan may be based on how long it takes their components to wear down (if they can't be easily replaced), what their predators/natural risks were, or even availability of resources, etc. If metals (or whatever else the cybertronian ancestors needed to grow) were rare as a consumable form of nutrition in their environment, maybe that would mean they'd grow very slowly, have to live a long time in order to reproduce (otherwise they'd die out), and the result is a long lifespan in the 'evolved' mechanical lifeform. It's always hard to apply our own understanding of biology and evolution in these kinds of distinctly different fictional settings, though.

Another thing to think about is if they're truly artificial lifeforms (and always have been), and have always been able to replace parts using artificial bits in their environment. If that was the case, maybe they'd adapt/evolve faster than organics, because they wouldn't need to wait until the next generation to "mutate" or change themselves. Or if they reproduce in a fashion closer to human industrial manufacturing, there might be more opportunities for design changes (conscious or otherwise), and an analogy could be drawn with how quickly human technology has advanced and improved on itself.

Not saying I agree with everything you're saying here, but some really interesting thinking! It spurred my own line of thought.

 

There's no good choice for me on the poll, because while I have a definite preference, the answer is never "never". I'm open to all takes, if they're done well. Any approach can be awesome as long as the writer comes at it honestly, with conviction and talent.

 

He's not interested in hearing back from us anymore, but he'll spend all day thinking of one more last word (after the last two or three). Since he's said he's not available for further dialogue but keeps @-ing me over and over anyway, I've put him on ignore until he settles down.

 

Actually I prefer them with some humanisation. I realise that's an unpopular opinion but I do not care.

 

“They are Mindless....sentient robots”

Contradiction much?

 

No new comments? Good. Yes I know that there are new comments, but I ignore them. When I say I won't be replying or reading comments. I really meant it. Well at least on TFG board ( expect for a few expections). On other boards, I'll just read and like the comments. Only post when I've something to say.

 

I don't really think you're on board with the concept of a 'discussion' forum...

But this is the new normal, I'm guessing? That you're just going to come into threads every couple of hours and reply that you're reminding everyone that you're no longer replying to threads, and that while you may APPEAR to be making posts and replying to people, that you are, in fact, in the middle of a hiatus from this site?

Do you have any... issues that the rest of us should be aware of in order to understand you better? You can let me know when you come back to reply to this thread later tonight.

 

Even this is a reply

 

Just lock your threads, dude. That's all there is to it. OR save a file somewhere with your ranting about cells and DNA so you can copy/paste it constantly. You aren't open for discourse, as you handwave pretty much any dissenting opinion away at the onset, and you're also offbase with your assumption that EVERY aspect of TF lore applies to EVERY TF lore no holds barred, despite being shown specifically how that can't happen. If you REALLY want to beat that drum, start writing a fanfic.

 

This.

Also In Transformers Prime:

Jack: “You’re a motorcycle, Arcee. Shouldn’t you know how to build a motorcycle engine?”

Arcee: “You’re human Jack. Can you build me a small intestine?”

So, the tag line “More than meets the eye” is always true. There will be nothing organic about Cybertronians as defined by human/carbon-based standards.

But then, what is organic? What is inorganic? The word “organic” means relating to or derived from living matter. What is living matter? Again, if you exclusively use a human definition of living matter, then you will ascribe human features and characteristics.

But Cybertronians are living metal... If the (human) definition of organic is relating to or derived from living matter, does that make them “organic”?

In a fictional sense and considering the Transformers lore, we see them, we know they can think and have emotions, they’re sapient.

But if you start thinking about them in detail and ascribe human features into them, physical/biological or otherwise, that’s when things fall apart.

Do they have the equivalent of cells? They could have, but probably not How we think of it based on carbon-based construct.

The closest I could think of could be some exotic, unknown nanoconstruct which could be the equivalent of Cybertronian cell. It will not be anything remotely similar to a human cell or cells of carbon-based organisms.

Or, let’s take their genetics, for example. They won’t have the equivalent of DNA as carbon-based organisms have, but their sparks could be an energy-based genetic marker. And all of that are canon to the overall story.

Simply put, I agree with the comment above. Cybertronian “biology” (or “biomechanics”) would be beyond human understanding, but we could take pieces here and there based on existing canon to form a narrative that syncs with their known features and characteristics.

Cybertronians can think and feel like humans do. But that’s where similarities end.

Just because they can think and feel like humans does not mean they’re going to reproduce similar to humans, for example. They may have a different method/methods some of which is already featured in various stories told (budding, well of sparks, spark/spark mating, to name a few). It does not need to be sexual as in human terms.

But reproduction merely means is to propagate the species to, as is the reason for reproduction, to increase the advantage for long-term survival of the species.

Do Cybertronians have hair? Of course they do. But that’s their Cybertronian equivalent which would be their headplates or helmets or in the case of the dreads, the metallic, predator-like braids. I could buy Que’s fiber optic hair but it just was not done right.

 

No reason you should care.

 

Wrong. Organic life means "made of carbon compounds". There's no reason why carbon based creatures need human qualities and, in fact, they usually don't have them. Our definition of biological life has nothing to do with "must have human features and characteristics".

Cybertronians aren't organic because they simply aren't carbon based. Not because they don't adhere to some human standards.