Re-watching Beast Machines. I have a thought.

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Nerdicon, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Nerdicon

    Nerdicon Caffene=Energon

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    Why did people hate this series so much? I missed most of it the first time around but from what I see, it's got fantastic character development, flawed characters and real plot. Any thoughts?
     
  2. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Because it's different.


    I love Beast Machines, too, BTW.
     
  3. Abrogate

    Abrogate Nondescript Former Poster

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    The main reason people dislike BM is the same reason they dislike BW: some fans of the original series simply can't stomach the idea of Transformers with organic forms (also, the concept of a Transformers series that has actual plot development bewilders and infuriates them).

    And, of course, BM is more intense than BW when it comes to the changes. The character designs for the Maximals are much more bizarre than in BW, and at the end of the series, Cybertron itself becomes organic, basically changing everything we know about the franchise (and since every series that came after BM was part of a different continuity, they never bothered to revisit that concept, basically leaving BM as an anomalous conclusion to G1)

    There was also some controversy over a misinterpreted quote from the series' head writer/editor, Bob Skir. He said he doesn't like to write heroes that use guns, preferring them to use their wits to get out of problems. Some people took this out of context to mean that he was condemning the use of guns by anyone, even the police, which isn't at all what he said, but it resulted in people massively turning against him (he was even sent death threats).
     
  4. chrisr291

    chrisr291 Master of the Unknown

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    BM is a series that grows on you and yes, its awesome:bowdown: 
     
  5. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    A lot of people had problems with Beast Machines back when because it followed Beast Wars as a sequel series, and changed a bunch of stuff (writing staff, visual style, character motivations, the very nature of the Maximals, Cybertron, etc.) Many felt it was a poor follow-up to BW for those reasons.

    After a decade or so of anime series and Micheal Bay movies to put things in perspective, Beast Machines doesn't seem quite so bad now, at least to some. Overall I think it's pretty good.
     
  6. rattrap007

    rattrap007 Insert witty comment here TFW2005 Supporter

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    For me it was the radical character shifts from the previous series.

    In BW Megatron LOVED his beast modes. He saw them as pure power and reveled in the symbolic nature of them. BM he loathed all organic forms and cursed his dragon side.

    In BW, Rattrap was a tough ass guy. He was lazy and smart mouthed and didn't stick his neck out unless it needed to. It wasn't fear, it was just he didn't care a hell of a lot at times. BM made him a coward and a wuss.


    I'm all ofr development like with Cheetor growing up into more a mature bot, but other parts just rubbed me the wrong way. Was it god awful? Not really. Better than Armada and Energon, but it ranks low for me. Plus the whole Nature vs Machine stuff made me groan. It came off as hippie BS to me.

    I did like aspects of it like the Vehicons, but others like Botanica, the new Rattrap, etc just made me ill..
     
  7. Nerdicon

    Nerdicon Caffene=Energon

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    Yeah. I actually hope the new series takes some cues from this. The good guys don't always win. I like the idea and It's just a great show. Savage Noble comes to mind. I understand the toys were reallly hit and miss but still...
    And as for the death threats... That's just crazy that someone would do that. But given how gun crazy the people where I live are I'm not suprised one bit.
    Good to see this show does have some following though.
     
  8. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    No it doesn't.

    And that is the problem with so many people who judge the series harshly. The Maximals are not trying to make Cybertron a 100% mechanical-free organic planet. They want to make it TECHNO-organic, like thier half-robot half-animal bodies. A balance. Primal almost destroyed Cybertron before he understood that.

    And again, it didn't abitrarily alter characters, it took the existing personality traits and put them under new circumstances. Cheetor barely changed at all, simply growing as he did over Beast Wars, wheras Rattrap was put in a small, weaponless body by the oracle and thought he was useless because of it. ("The Weak Component" is probably one of the best episodes of Transformers anything EVER)
     
  9. Nerdicon

    Nerdicon Caffene=Energon

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    This.
     
  10. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I see.

    So do you dislike people who dislike Beast Machines because they are different than you?
     
  11. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    I didn't like Beast Machines for a few reasons.

    Aesthetically the characters look AWFUL. I hate the character designs. I like being able to follow what goes where in a transformation. Beast Wars was good for this (though not great). When Primal transforms I can tell where stuff goes. Machines however.. Not so much. Heck I don't care much for Dinobot aesthetically either despite how awesome of a character he is.

    The whole nature vs machine thing. Part of the reason I love Transformers is because they are robots. I love Cybertron as a metal world full of metal people. Seeing it become Earth-like detracts from it, a lot.

    Megatron. In Beat Wars he was awesome. He was brilliant and ruthless. But I cannot buy that he managed to take over the entire planet so easily. Also they never even hinted at a dislike of organics once in all of Beast Wars. So in order for me to even buy the premise I have to justify it as him becoming insane during the trip home.

    The oracle and super natural aspects were played up way to much for a show supposed to be about robots fighting other robots.

    Now I will admit it did do some stuff I liked. Introducing alien transformers like Botanica was cool, even if I didn't completely like that character. Primal and Megatron both going out together was good too.

    Over all the show may have been alright on its own but it's just not a good continuation of Transformers. Had it been called anything else it would have been fine. So good series, horrible sequel.
     
  12. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    I´m not too keen on the "vehicles bad, creatures good" theme they had going.
     
  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Eh, wha?

    I never said I disliked stuff that's different, and I wasn't being sarcastic. It is really different, and some people just don't dig that kind of stuff.

    That wasn't really the theme at all.

    The theme is that purely organic or purely technological is not the intended destiny for Cybertron. The Maximals themselves are partly technological.

    Also, technically speaking and from a character design standpoint, the designs are fine. To you they might not be what you like, but stand-alone there's nothing wrong with them.
     
  14. ChopperByrne

    ChopperByrne Well-Known Member

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    I really like Beast Machines. Had good character development and Megatron was brilliant in it because he was hardly ever in battle himself, preferring to try beat Primal on a psychological and philosophical level.

    As a show for kids, not great, but it is easily one of the best TF shows for adults to watch.
     
  15. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    My bad then-
     
  16. Nerdicon

    Nerdicon Caffene=Energon

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    Let's all play nice.

    He never claimed to dislike the opinions of others or to dislike others for said opinions. I appreciate all opinions and merely wanted a civil discussion.
    As with any show it may or may not suit your tastes. and I welcome your opinion. I just wanted to know what others see as flaws.

    One can never understand their own opinion 'til they can understand another's.
     
  17. darksage78

    darksage78 Maximal

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    I think Beast Machines look amazing graphically. But like many others, too many important elements of BW simply disappeared. Seemed as though they could generate parts out of nowhere and while in Beast Wars they moved further and further towards coherent transformations analogues of their toys. It seemed as though Beast Machines moved backwards in that sense of BW Season 1 transformations. The other disconnect was as aforementioned the characters that were carried over from BW. This was probably due to the fact that Hasbro didn't want Bob Skir to do as little research of any kind before writing BM.

    Storywise I thought it was an interesting take on Transformers. I think things got into full swing around Season 2, especially when they brought in Obsidian and Strika. It also delved a lot into mythos and that I didn't like too much. When Bob Forward and Larry Ditillio started on BW, they wanted a scifi show, exploring the accidents of technology and nature keeping it in tune with each other. BM felt like it completely separated those two, making it tech vs nature.
     
  18. MrSoundwaveGuy

    MrSoundwaveGuy I've made a huge mistake

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    I thought BM was ok. There was certainly a lot more depth to it which I liked, and many interesting ideas but really what hurt the series for me was the characters, I never really cared for them as much as I did in Beast Wars
     
  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    If there's one thing I genuinely disliked about Beast Machines, it was Nightscream. I suppose there's nothing wrong with his character, but he really didn't seem to have a place in the show. That and his VA was annoying. And while again, nothing technically wrong with his design, but it always looked the least techno-organic to me, and... he had eye-liner and that weird hair strand. Blackarachnia I understood having har, she was a girl and it jived with her design. I struggle to pin down the overall motifof Nightscream: character, design and all.

    On the flip side, Cheetor was my favourite. Second to Rattrap, he was the most techno-organic looking and easily looked like a fast and strong guy, befitting his personality. Especially with the long, thin lower legs, the extra-long head that looked like one of those bicycle-racer's helmets. (chin strap and all) His beast mode legs ever had when looked like a suspension system in the legs, like this was a cheetah with cyborg parts to make him run even faster.

    I also liked Jetstorm alot. He was just a joy to listen to.
     
  20. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Now, I don't think a lot of people dislike things that are different just for the sake of it being dfferent. People usually have reasons- and in this case, Beast Machines took a direction that people- like myself- couldn't appreciate.

    I didn't like what Skir did with the characters.
    I din't like the new designs.
    The toys were crap save a few gems.

    I like sentient robots that transformed thru cogs, pistons and hinges. That element about Transformers was turned around so that it was the ad guys that transformed and the good guys morphed. In other words: I like mechanical transforming and BM made it into something bad... something to get away from.

    Plus, we're not even talking about real morphing- just a bright light where one mode shrunk down and the other mode faded in.

    Plus, transforming- which used to be mechanical- could only be achieved thru yoga? A spiritual connection between mind and body- lame. That said, I do appreciate the embracing of Spirituality- be it the book of Primus in Beast Wars or the Oracle in Beast Machines. I just didn't care for the fact that they need yoga to transform (morph).

    Megaron using Optimal Optimus' body was a fantastic twist tho, and that final battle between Primal and Megatron is unmatched in any animated transformers show.

    I am a pro-gun person, so I didn't like Skir's anti-gun untertones... even tho we often saw Primal blast vehicons with his chest energy weapon.

    Veggietron.

    Personally, I would like to see a sequel that would pick up where Beast Machines left off- that the whole thing was orchistrated by the Quintessons so that the Quints could retake their newly energized planet and enslave and controll the newly reformatted Cybertronians... and that the Vehicons in orbit could search the galaxy for the heroes from the past and thus free Cybertron.

    I'm with ya.
     

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