Why? He's absolutely right.

The media default is to give the "minority" (anyone but white) a free pass- maybe even make excuses for like ol' Mahnus did above- while the white man is absolutely crucified.

Example- in areas that are pre-dominantly black, if a black kid hilds up a convenience store and is caught by cops- who are white- and the kid decks the cop, and the cop decks the kid back to subdue him, the press immediately starts the "racist white cop beating up a black youth" angle. Count on the "black community leaders" to come out and call for the firing and arrest of said officer, with the media fanning the flames.

 

Um, I don't think anyone calls the National Italian American Foundation (which spoke out against the Jersey Shore being insensitive and not representative of Italian culture), the Jewish Federations of North America, or any of the THOUSANDS of white cultural organizations racist. These groups promote and educate people both within and outside of their respective cultures. As you point out, there will be people of ALL races quick to denounce something as being racist, but to make a blanket statement like that about "people" shows you're not well-informed.

 

ok..that's cool..I beleive in the first amendmant and maybe no one has ever been sued,I don't know,I'm not trying to get into a debate all I'm saying is it's way out of control in this country..and all I'm saying with the whole KKK/Panther thing is that there are rascists on both sides,black panthers being rascist against white people and kkk being rascist to a crap load of races as well so in that sense you CAN compare the two ..

 

Lol there are no excuses, let's just deal with facts. In what specific situation has someone been given a free pass? What exactly are you talking about here?

It's fact that for the same crimes, minorities face longer prison terms. It's fact that to this day, minority community public education is underfunded than their "white" counterparts. To say racism doesn't exist is ignoring the reality.

I've never heard of a minority getting a "free pass" just because he was a minority in the media. Are you talking about politicians? I'm pretty sure both Herman Cain and John Edwards were "crucified" for extramarital affairs, as were Tiger Woods and Arnold Schwarzenegger.


Edit: Bellpeppers, again find me a REAL story with those facts. You can't, because if the facts are shown to be as you described them to be, there'd be no issue. The issue comes when a cop uses excessive force (force beyond what is necessary for the job), or when a cop acts unreasonably or unprovoked. Under your fact pattern, we should be hearing these cases everyday, but we don't.

 

Yes, you can compare anything, you can compare aliens and ants. I was just pointing out you said the panther party was "just as bad as" the KKK. You can compare the KKK to any cultural affinity group as the Scottish Foundation of the Virginia Highlands (this actually exists), but beyond a passion for their respective cultures, the comparison fails.

 

let's just let it go because this is heading in a direction it probebly shouldn't..sure racism sucks and there's racism in all cultures that's all I was trying to say..now I'm willing to move on with that statement because it isn't worth arguing over..

 

Ive seen and heard of this many times. You sir just gained my respect.

 

Same in Germany. You can't tell to be proud of being german because everyone at once calls you a Nazi. Most germans think they have to be ashamed to be german. What a bullshit. As long as you are no supremacist or extremist who thinks of himself and others like him to be superior and only human beings worth it, I think everyone should be proud of themselves and their nation. I think every place in the world has something that the citizens can be proud of. Just don't take it to extremes.

 

It is really good to hear a different perspective and I think its healthy to have conversations like this. In England you can also get arrested for inciting racial hatred, as well as this any celebrity caught expressing any kind of racist opinions usually gets condemned in the media and lawsuits of racial discrimination can exist here too. Its sad to hear that where you are, you feel there is a double standard in how the law tackles hate spreaders depending on there skin colour as I believe we should all have the same legal protection. Some Islamic clerics have been arrested here for spreading racial hatred but if you was to ask someone who could potentially be on the receiving end of their hatred if enough was being done to stop them regardless of any facts of course they are going to say no or maybe think there is some kind of double standard to prevent enough being done. this could work both ways if you were to substitute dodgy Islamic clerics for the KKK, black panthers or EDL and their potential targets.

 

Agreed...

 

This just made me laugh out loud. I'm pretty sure an actual Italian born and bred in Italy is nothing like an Italian American so to even compare someone from Jersey Shore to an Italian beggars belief.

Serious question and I mean no disrespect at all, why do Americans cling so much to other cultures around the world....why not embrace your own? I've really never understand the Italian American/Irish American etc thing.....your American. Period. Be proud of that fact.

For example I'm English, proud to be English and even tho my dad is Irish I don't see myself as English Irish and don't consider myself to be Irish in any way.

 

It does happen a lot, Even at work when I was a manager. I was fair to everyone, Everyone got praised and or in trouble if they did something wrong no matter the race of the individual.
But just because one individual was black and he didn't like me for what ever reason he went to corporate and said I was racist. From that day on I was not aloud to write him up even if he did something wrong. Was told id loose my job if I wrote him up for anything he did. Only way I could write him up or even fire him was to write up or fire someone else who was white with him because it would be singling him out if not. The company was afraid of some punk abusing the system and saying how we enslaved "his" people that the company is racist.
Which its not and even the district manager was African American. lol Oh well. All i'm trying to get at, Some people are granted free passes based on race even though it shouldn't.

On topic now.. as for the carbombya. It was political and not racist. But some older cartoons such as bugs bunny where racist to some extent.

 

Yeah I hear ya. I'm not too clear on the facts, not sure if they were saying "this isn't how Italians act" or "this isn't how Italian-Americans act."

As far as being "American", we're a young country with much to learn. Part of it is that being "American" is not tied to any one race/religion/etc. Until recently, if you were "French" your nationality and ethnicity (?) were French; same with Japan. America (the country, not the landmass) was never like that. Melting pot, blah blah. =)

I was just making the point that you don't hear these big stories in the media. No doubt it happens and that really sucks. Companies don't want the trouble of a lawsuit and so they put up with some punk abusing the system. I think that's equally, if not more wrong. It then makes the company wary of hiring from that ethnic/racial group, and so starts the downward spiral. I wish the law could weed out such instances as well in a less expensive way. Same thing goes for sex discrimination. The cost of discovery can be so costly that companies will settle having not done anything wrong just to appease the guy.

Somewhat back on topic, I think yes, some people are far too quick to call racism or discrimination, but I also think some people are too quick to call someone "too PC" or being racist/discriminatory themselves. There will always be something to find offense in, but society can't condemn someone for truly feeling a certain way (and not simply using it to an advantage) since we're not in their shoes.

G1 was full of potentially offensive material-- Carbombya, the Jazz/Blaster stereotype, Wheeljack's New Yorka accent, the treatment of American blue collar workers, the depiction of pacifists in Fight or Flee, the treatment of the handicapped (Ravage did bust Chip through a window), stereotypes of the slow-witted (Dinobots). Hah, the list can go on if you look hard enough, but was all of it bad? I personally took it all in good fun and never thought any of it was offensive to me, but the Carbombya issue was enough to make a prominent radio personality and voice actor to leave the show.

Bottom line I guess is who knows what will make someone offended. The important thing is to have a genuine dialogue about it, and for people not to use their offense for unfair personal gain.

 

Republicans don't qualify as officially minority in some people's eyes, but that's a debate for another forum.

For Tiger, you could say his "free pass" was not reporting his actions for years until it blew up.

Speaking as a big guy who likes to eat, how about the ultimate negative stereotype on Transformers - Big guys who eat a lot are the devil! They'll destroy your world, eat your loved ones, then ensalve you!

No, you can be skinny little Rodimus with your Matrix and kill the fat guy and you're a hero.

 

Many of us do, however there is an ideology that currently has the louder voice that tends to find more importance to those cultures outside the country. They also tend to be resentful of established cultures within the US and diminish them whenever possible.

 

The problem with Carbombya was that it was political AND it was racist. The two subjects become somewhat conflated, especially when presented in such a broad, simplified way for a children's program.

Mind you, it was also pretty funny. I often laugh at things that are politically incorrect. HOWEVER... I'm not going to deny that there's a problem with them. The only issue with political correctness is that it often results in people NOT talking about an issue, and getting defensive. You can laugh at something racist, and not necessarily BE racist. I think the path of dialogue has to be left open.

The fact that Carbombya wasn't an actual place, but rather a broad stereotype of middle-eastern cliches, many of which didn't even relate to Libya or Khadaffi (or however they spell it now).. is part of the issue.

Racism is a tricky topic because I think people usually look at in terms of people of different colours living in the same culture, and how superficial biases can become cultural norms. That's how I look at "racism", though once you're talking about whole other countries and cultures, it's a bit more vague because the differences are political, social, ethnic, etc. I do believe we should be able to make personal judgments about how other cultures/nations work without being labelled "racist".

But we should also be sensitive to how making really broad, distorted stereotypes of a whole ethnic populace can be a problem on a kids show. They don't get the political jokes. They just get the message that middle easterners are all terrorists and camel-jockeys with kooky tribal customs.

I'm not condemning G1 for it (though Casey Kasem did), but I'm not pretending it wasn't an issue... and might not be even more of an issue today. Call it racism, Orientalism, xenophobia, whatever... it's dangerous. Whether it's in a cartoon or a new broadcast, it still has an effect.

Exactly. My fear is that so many here are so defensive and uptight, they aren't even capable of looking at the issue without their hands on the holster.

So, what's your point? Racism, prejudice and stereotypes happen everywhere. It doesn't excuse it when it happens at home. I think racism in America with regards to local minorities is a different-but-related issue compared to stereotypes between nations. But both can be harmful.

Jingoistic/patriotic. Whatever. For me "patriotism" is just as much a dirty word. The whole idea that your pride in your fabricated notion of "nationality" might create biases that enable xenophobia, racism, imperialism, etc... I think that's a problem. I don't think ANYONE should be proud of their race or proud of their country. There is no "good" skin colour, no "good" culture, no "good" country. Every race has done bad, every country has atrocities, every ethnic history is blemished. Being "proud" just suggests to me a tendency to close your eyes and ears to any criticism or discussion of the faults of your "people". It means creating a division between us and them. Or at least, that's often how "pride" is expressed in my experience.

If people could just get over their f***in' self-entitling "pride", the world would probably be a better place. The USA is famous for this attitude, but it applies to everyone really. Even us canadians (though mostly applied to hockey events).  

I'm always suspicious of anyone who declares their pride in their race, creed, country, whatever... because it's usually involved with blocking something out, or constructing arbitrary hierarchical boundaries between people. It's just rhetoric.

Not to defend a fundamentally racist organization like the KKK, or to belittle the very real issues that faced (and still face) black people in America... but technically the KKK was formed because southerners felt oppressed in the years after the Civil War, by minorities and government policies from the north.

In that sense, I think both organizations can be compared, as they are both militant reactions to a perception of being systemically oppressed. However, in this case I liken the KKK a bit more to the whiners who rant that they are being persecuted "by the lefties" for "being white", etc... oh give me a break! Most of them wouldn't know persecution until a cop hit them in the face with it for being "uppity".  

That said, I think that there have also been a lot of ridiculous abuses and Orwellian bureaucratic travesties perpetrated in the name of affirmative action, political correctness, zero tolerance, etc... paranoid minorities and lefties who exploit the victim complex are no better than reactionary alarmist loudmouths in my opinion. Unfortunately common sense is lacking on both sides in too many cases.

zmog

 

I was born in australia, no idea where my parents family comes from (they dont even know themselves) and still think of myself being irish more than anything

 

I guess that makes a certain amount of sense but I don't buy it. Your country may not have as much history as others but it does have some. You have your own identity and, IMO at least, you should use that instead of using others. We should all be proud of where we are from no matter the colour of our skin or religion (if we choose one) we follow.

lol I really don't get it. There must be something that gives you that vibe. Hell I've been to both Northern Ireland and Ireland loadsa times and I still don't feel any connection. Weird innit!

 

stop this now - i not want see tfw2005 board goes offline

 

My point was that black and white politicians are equally "crucified" for extramarital affairs, same with entertainers. And you can say the other guys got "free passes" for not reporting the actions earlier as well, certainly in the case of Jon Edwards whose entire staff knew he was cheating on his sick-with-cancer wife and fathering someone else's child. So no, it wasn't just minorities getting a free pass, if they were even given a free pass.