"Other stuff was embarrassingly off, like Ravage being a Russian circus bear, and the Matrix just being Optimus Prime's personal spark container, nothing more."

Ravage wasn't a bear. He was Russian though and BW Ravage was awesome. I'm glad he wasn't like he was in G1. Personally when BW came out I had forgotten all about the original cartoon. When I heard that he was rebuilt from one of the original Decepticons I looked him up expecting to see the dual pistol wielding Russian spy in a more blocky G1 style design instead I found a stupid little cassette tape that's most known for being trapped in a cage guarded by Hound and spending most o his time inside Sound wave's chest.

I agree the Matrix/Spark case was dumb but BW Ravage was a major improvement. I almost wish he was a different character like everyone else in Beast Wars just cause of how lame the G1 version is I can't believed they're the same character.

"That was in 1984. I consider Laser core and spark to be the same thing."

They are the same thing.

"BW was sooo different and failed a lot of G1 history."

To be fair G1 fails a lot of G1 history. Remember there are three different origins for the Construct icons. Some characters just randomly show up out of freaking no where with no explanation of where they came from. Characters who died in the movie keep showing up in season three and the Japanese portion of G1. They keep saying Autobots can't fly even though several of them do. It was said that only Vector Sigma could give life to new Transformers even though multiple characters were built on Earth without Vector Sigma. Basically G1 has more continuity errors than Armada but I forgive G1 because it was the 80's. Can't really blame the beast era for a preexisting condition.

"BM on the other hand, studied G1 well and used a lot of historical concepts like the Hate Plague, plasma Energy Chamber, Key to Vector Sigma, and more."

They actually got that wrong too because the Key to Vector Sigma was destroyed and there was no way to make copies which is why Alpha Trion had to sacrifice himself to activate it.

Both actually did put a lot of effort into making the Beast era consistent with itself. The G1 stuff they took liberties with because it's a continuity nightmare to begin with.

 

Canon is anything and everything that is officially released so as crazy as this sounds the Fiction written on let's say a toothbrush holder is also Canon

As to your main question I would say released to the public regardless of what came first in your or any area

What I considered to be debatable is whether or not the toys can be considered a medium for the fiction......particularly during the first run of figures all we really got were a few short bios

I also would not consider a TV commercial for the comic book a medium for the fiction all it really did was make people aware of the fiction but was not a medium for the fiction in and of it's self

 

Honestly, I much prefer Primus and the 13. The mysticism that surrounds them (or at least used to) is just so intriguing, to me. Although, the Aligned Continuity has kinda ruined it by telling us everything about it and the movies are actually getting that same level of mystery out of the Quintessons. Plus, as I've grown up, I do find the idea of an entire race existing purely for the profit of their creators has potential for good commentary on modern society. I still, however, prefer Primus.

Wasn't the Oracle meant to be a future version of Vector Sigma? That's why it could create Keys to Victor Sigma.

Tankor sent a drone inside of the Oracle itself to download the info to create more Keys, a method that wasn't available to the Autobots in the Key to Vector Sigma episodes. Sure, they had plenty of drones at the time, but they probably weren't intelligent enough to carry out that task.

 

I forgot this part before

That matrix/spark chamber issue has been confirmed by the writing staff to have literally been just a dumb mistake

 

I would definitely consider both of these as mediums.
Generally the toys, including the 1st ones, were released before their cartoon appearance. So their small bios were the 1st fiction intros to them.

The TV commercial had a few crucial story points that made Transformers what they are: 2 factions fighting and robots who are sentient since they aren't manned by humans.
This was huge to the concept beyond just Robots who Transform.

 

Not exactly true

1) those bios weren't much fiction-wise....even thou it was the basics

2)remember the comic books were released before the cartoon.....and the toy bios were just condensed versions of their comic book bios

The TV commercials may have contained crucial story points but they did not tell the story themselves , all they did was report items of the fiction


Would you consider a television news interview/report a medium source for a world of fiction?

I know I wouldn't......Because the interview/report would only be reporting or commenting on the fiction and not be part of it in itself

It's no different then the promos to next weeks episode of any particular television series those promos are not part of the fiction.... they are just showing material that is related to upcoming parts of the fiction

Likewise the commercials them selfs are not a medium for the fiction.....they are only providing little hints into the fiction

To get an understanding on the fiction you needed to go to the fiction itself be at comic or cartoon

 

Mixing the Primus origin WITH the Quintessons origin (spiced with a dash of fanwanking) is the best option.

 

if you choose to mix them and put them together that's your right
But I think the best thing to do is just viewed them as being separate histories/origins from different parallel universes with no need to draw a connection to each other

 

You're both right. I mixed the Quint and Primus origin in my photo-comic. Accounts from the Smittyverse

What is not stated in my story is that the 13 were already on Cybertron with Primus who was awake, when the Quintessons arrived but they died and Primus was put into a sleep like state.

 

I prefer Primus and the Thirteen. I just feel like there's more effort thrown into it. "Primus and Unicron were immensely powerful beings who were at war for millennia. Primus takes on the shape of the planet Cybertron and creates thirteen warriors to defeat Unicron once and for all. Primus goes to sleep, and each of his children uses their mastery over a certain craft (creating for Solus, combining for Nexus, etc.) to help shape Cybertronian society. One of their number betrays them, and kills one of their number. The others banish him forever."

That's way more interesting to me than, "These five-faced jerks made them to be slaves. They rebel and fight them off."

I don't mind the Quintessons being a part of Cybertronian history, but if I had to choose one or the other, I'd go with Primus.

 

Primus and the Thirteen
+
The Quintessons
+
Cybertron was once Earth
=
The Most Fun EVAR

 

That's weird, because I see it the exact opposite way.

A.I.s gaining sentience is way more interesting to me than "a space god did it."

 

I guess it depends on your preference. Even in a universe where Primus isn't real and the Quintessons created the Transformers, I still prefer that the Transformers have some form of belief system, because I feel it makes them feel more real and lifelike as a species. It's fine if you don't agree, but I really do prefer seeing cultures that have their own belief systems, and sometimes even several different belief systems, including members of their race who don't believe in them. It just feels more diverse to me and makes such an outlandish concept feel just a bit more real.

 

Have you forgotten that cybertron was moved twice close to earth`s orbit by the decepticons in the ultimate doom and rebirth episodes? so then how did the autobots put cybertron back into it`s original orbit? as for the early organic experiments by the quintessons they could have gotten the creatures from other planets simple as that.as for the fossils, that came only from beast machines show,never saw fossils in the old show,the writers of BM made up things as they went along.

 

First two and fifth you got right,but the rest ,toy tech spec was only the character profile,3d comics was following after the G1 rebirth episode,ladybird books was just a single story in each book ,and the japan g1 cartoon i consider the same continuity by the same company only japan ignored the US rebirth episode that`s all..

 

Actually did forget about them moving the planet in the G1 cartoon.

As for the second part, so your reasoning is because we never saw fossils in G1 that there weren't any? We know that there were organic experiments on Cybertron, that was seen in G1 even if they came from a different planet as you suggested Beast Machines takes place in the far future so there would be fossils from those creatures by that time anyway.

 

In all fairness, even in a universe where Primus does not exist and the TFs were purely Quint-created, I should think they would still have such beliefs.

Heck, in this world we live in there is no actual, factual evidence of any gods -- yet there are tons of people who believe in various types of god. The same could and almost certainly would be true for Cybertronians.

I mean, looking at Cybertronian belief systems we've already got:

* Evolution (TFs evolved from naturally occurring gears and pulleys)
* Ancient Aliens (TFs as products of the Quintessons)
* Intelligent Design (TFs created by Primus)
* Ancient Aliens AND Intelligent Design (Quints built TFs, Primus gave them life)
* Intelligent Design plus Pantheon (IDW's Guiding Hand)
* Whatever headcanon ideas fans make up

That's pretty diverse, right there.

 

Sorry but you are dead wrong

In some cases The tech specs tell a different origin for characters so that makes them a different continuity

wrong again

Biggest difference here is that in this continuity hot rod and Rodimus Prime are two different characters

Even if you were right about that it doesn't not change the fact that it's their own continuity

And by the way the first book contains five stories the second book contains at least two each of the books contained multiple stories and in some completely different Origins for the Headmaster concept

wrong again

there were differences before the rebirth .... for example Japanese continuity places Trypticons creation near the year 1986

In the US tf cartoon continuity trypticon was created after 2005

you really should learn the subject matter before you try debating it

 

You might consider them to be, but you'd be completely wrong.

You're also forgetting (or maybe never knew) that there is a 5 year gap between the movie and season 3 in Japanese continuity, in which a LOT happens in Japanese G1 that never takes place in US G1. In Japanese G1, when Rodimus Prime threw Galvatron out of Unicron at the end of the movie, he ended up hitting Earth, which caused a huge disaster like a meteor hit. Out of guilt, Rodimus gave up the Matrix to Ultra Magnus and became Hot Rod again for a while. Due to the disaster, Earth started developing technology to keep all Cybertronians off of Earth. Through a series of events, Galvatron THEN eventually ended up on planet Chaar in the year 2010, which is the year season 3 takes place in Japanese G1. In fact, season 3 was treated as an entirely separate series to the first 2 seasons, and titled 'Transformers 2010'.

In US G1, season 3 takes place in 2005, immediately after the end of the movie. Rodimus Prime throws Galvatron directly into Chaar. None of the connecting Japanese stories take place in US continuity at all. And that's all before Rebirth.

Likewise, after season 3, Japan had three follow up series and an OVA, none of the events of which took place in any form in US G1. No blown up Cybertron, no Planet Master, no Devil Z, no human supreme commander of the Autobots, no ultimate swordsman, no Planet Zone with talking bunny birds.

This.

 

Cool info dump I learned a few things.....but one correction

you are mistaken there

Galvatron was thrown into Thrull

Chart is where the deceptions were hiding