Questions about "meaningful deaths", etc.

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Resolution, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. Resolution

    Resolution Well-Known Member

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    Please don't start a fight on this thread! I joined to see the opinions of others about TFP. I find it interesting that people can watch the same thing and interepret it or react to it in different ways. Questions are random thoughts.

    Questions are regarding Transformers Prime only. I haven't seen all the other shows or movies, so comparisons are meaningless to me.

    1. What do you consider a meaningful death? If a character is only in one episode and dies, people complain. If a character is in two or more episodes and dies, people complain.

    2. How much action is the right amount? If there is a busy episode like Armada or The Human factor people complain about too much occurring in one episode. If there is less action, people call the episode filler.

    3. Why are the terms fanboy and fangirl negative? I thought they indicated the target audience. But the terms seem to be used in a derogatory way on this forum.

    4. Why is there never complete "closure" on anything? Despite the ending of Human Factor, Mech can still be around with or without Silas. There were many Mech humans in previous episodes who survived encounters with Bumblebee, Arcee, Bulkhead and Breakdown. Synthetic Energon, Arachnid, and Nemesis Prime are still unresolved threats.

    5. What is Megatrons plan for earth? Other than collecting everything that came from Cybertron, has there been any indication of why he wants to conquer a planet whose beings he detests? He doesn't want to destroy earth; and he should realize if the kids give him so much trouble, organized adults could be worse.

    6. What size stiletto shoe do you think Starscream wears?
     
  2. Moonlight1102

    Moonlight1102 Banned

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    Wut?
     
  3. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    1. A death that means something significant to the plot or for the development of other characters, and/or the death significantly showcases the character's own development or growth.

    2. I just want good action. If it's just characters spamming pew pew lasers and one shotting hordes of stuff then I don't want it.

    3. IDK, it's only negative if they feel the need to defend every little thing about the show in an annoying or inflammatory way.

    4. IDK.

    5. He seems to just want to rule over it. Why? I honestly don't know; I don't see much benefit from it.

    6. A size 69.
     
  4. DinoFreakUSA

    DinoFreakUSA Well-Known Member

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    1. A meaningful death is something that actually contributes to the plot. In Beast Wars, Dinobot's death contributed to his story arc, and by contributed I mean ended, and was a result of his character development. Cliffjumper was somewhat meaningful as it gave some motivation.

    2.It all depends. If you want people to beleive a climactic battle is supposed to be happening, a lot. If you want the scene to just be about then action then go all Bay on it. If you want the action just to get people's attention, just put in a little.

    3. The tersm fanboy and fangirl are treated as negative because when people say fanboy/girl they often refer to the fans who ruin the franchise for everyone else and are completely dedicated to things commonly considered wierd. Shippers quite commonly fit into this. GEEWUN is another example.

    4. In Prime's case, it is so they have something to work with for later episodes. The way it is going, I doubt they actually have a long-term plan and are simply trying to fanwank.

    5. The same reason any super-villain wants to take over the world. For the sake of ruling a world.
     
  5. Worlder

    Worlder Well-Known Member

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    A meaningful death gives something for the departed character's allies to ponder and/or a death that the character is willing to accept as a final task to his or her cause. However, all of this requires that the character be well developed prior to death.
     
  6. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    Which so far, only Cliffjumper has gotten.
     
  7. Worlder

    Worlder Well-Known Member

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    Well the Decepticons aren't exactly the mournful type.
     
  8. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    And no well-developed Decepticons have died.
     
  9. Worlder

    Worlder Well-Known Member

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    Is that sarcasm?

    Well if it is ok there is Breakdown.
     
  10. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    He's not well-developed. Nothing was known about him except that he was Knock Out's partner and that he had a rivalry with Bulkhead.
     
  11. cuad

    cuad VOK EMISSARY

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    Excellent thread.

    1. What do you consider a meaningful death? I don't know for myself, so I'll use David Simon's answer, which is: when the character's story is over, when there's nothing left for him. You could say I didn't think Breakdown's story was over. That's why I thought his death was lame.

    2. How much action is the right amount? As much action as necessary is just fine. I didn't like Armada, but the latest TFP ep was action-packed and it was great. I think filler is filler, but it isn't always bad.

    3. Why are the terms fanboy and fangirl negative? They sound like they refer to fans of the show, but they refer to people who derail threads once their topic of choice pops up, like I did all the time in any thread that mentioned Starscream or Arcee.

    4. Why is there never complete "closure" on anything? Easiest question. Maybe they can find a use for that thing later, so they don't want to prevent themselves from having that resource. However the way they do it in TFP is distracting.

    5. What is Megatrons plan for earth? As far as I know, he's just collecting stuff and laughing at everyone who thinks they can kill Optimus Prime.
     
  12. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    People complain no matter what but for different reasons. If people are complaining because the show killed off their favorite character as is the case with Breakdown that's actually a good thing. It means the death actually had an impact on the audience.

    When people complain that a character was killed after only one episode as is the case for Cliffjumper and Skyquake that's because the characters didn't exist long enough for anyone to care about them. It's like they didn't exist at all. That's a meaningless death.

    It's all about screen time with me.

    I think you have the wrong idea about what people consider "filler" episodes. Though everyone might have different opinions on that. The only thing they would agree on because it's a fact is that clip shows are filler episodes.

    Anyway the "too much happening at once" isn't too much action but too many plots happening at once. Like the episode Armada had Starscream Clones and the Insecticons and Bulkhead being trapped on the Nemesis. They only have so much time in an episode to tell a story so when they're trying to tell 3 or more stories at the same time it feels rushed.

    I actually had this problem with the Spider-man sequels. The first movie the pacing was perfect, second movie was kinda slow, third movie was way too much happening at once.

    No, GeeWhiner is the derogatory because it refers to fans who hate anything that is different from the original just for the sake of being different without actually giving it a fair chance. Often times the changes are better than the original version like for example I prefer Prime Wheeljack to the G1 counterpart. Of course sense you said you haven't seen anything outside of Prime this is a bit hard to explain.

    I guess you could compare it to Trekies who only like the original series and hate anything from The Next Generation and beyond. Or Star Wars fans who hate the Prequels. Or Indiana Jones fans who hate Crystal Skull.

    It's still an ongoing series. Unless the show gets canceled and they rush the ending or never end it at all there will be closure to all the ongoing plots.

    I don't think Megatron has any actual plans for Earth. He's just there collecting what useful resources he can and will probably destroy the planet when it's no longer of use to him.

    Well now this is just silly... he's a giant robot so like 42... hundred.
     
  13. Breakdown96

    Breakdown96 ‘Cause I'm Mr. Brightside

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  14. lordjimmybob

    lordjimmybob Well-Known Member

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    I thought everyone hated that? Oh, I can't help but remember the South Park episode that made fun of just that.

    As for the character deaths, they didn't have any impact. No stories ended at the time of death. Cliffjumpers' story didn't even start, so no one cared he croaked and Breakdown's past with Bulkhead is still unexplored after he was reanimated with a parasite. Speaking of characters, where the Hell is DreadWing and what ever happened to the Prime writers saying the cast will double in season 2? Insecticon and Smokescreen plus a Skyquake repaint that went on vacation is not 2x the season 1 cast.
     
  15. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Well killing a character isn't really suppose to make everyone happy, that's kind of the point. You're either going to hate it because they killed off your favorite character or you're going to love it because they killed off someone you hated. That's a meaningful death. The meaning can't be the same for everyone but at least everyone will have their own opinion about weather the death was good or bad.

    As a writer you want your audience to care about weather the characters live or die. They don't necessarily have to like or hate the same characters but they have to at least exist long enough for people to form some kind of an opinion about them. As long as the audience actually cares about the character then it's a meaningful dead. If the character dies and no one gives a crap that's bad writing.
     
  16. Breakdown96

    Breakdown96 ‘Cause I'm Mr. Brightside

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    As you said yeah, some people dont like the decision to kill their favourite characters, no-one likes it really. The writers know they've done a good job with the script when theres a big debate over it, and peolle say he shouldnt die, people like different characters, thewriters cant make everybody happy,there are going go be some people going to be letdown once in a while.
     
  17. Grimlock22

    Grimlock22 Some sort of artist

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    1&2 are to me ansered by saying Beast Wars

    5.get all their stuff and laugh

    6. Hahaha I get that
     
  18. Resolution

    Resolution Well-Known Member

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    I just put that in to keep things light. I hate when threads get hostile.
     
  19. soundwave142

    soundwave142 Decepticon over-seer

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    hmm...the day kaiju's fav character is brutally murdered is the day i'll be completey satisfied with deaths in the show
     
  20. LotusoftheLeaf

    LotusoftheLeaf Well-Known Member

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    I haven't really seen any other TF shows myself so I guess I'll try answering these.

    To me, a meaningful death is one that moves the story along. I guess all Breakdown's death lead to was his body eventually being used by MECH, and since that could have been anybody and didn't need to be Breakdown, his death didn't really matter much. Then again, I don't know what else they could have done with the character other then reveal his past with Bulkhead, but that can still happen in flashbacks.

    I'm usually satisfied with the amount of action in each episode. I actually enjoy the busier ones. I don't much care for action when it's just for the sake of seeing things a-splode, though, and would rather have some actual story.

    If "bronies" can be taken as an example, it's because some people have big mouths and like to screw things up for everyone by setting a bad image for the entire community. I'd consider myself a "fangirl" as I find the show to be damn near perfect, but I can also accept that not everyone else feels that way and don't get into a tizzy when someone disses it.

    I'd assume it's because the writers want to leave those things open just in case they think up more to add to them later. Or maybe so the fans can come up with their own theories of what might be going on "off camera" in the show.

    As far as I know, Megatron is just hanging around Earth because it seems to have (had?) enough Energon to sustain him and his troops. Now that Cybertronian relics are being uncovered there, he has even more of a reason to stay.

    Silly Billy, he doesn't wear shoes! His stilettos are built right into his feet!
     

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