Question to those who dislike TF:A

Discussion in 'Transformers Animated Discussion' started by Transbot90210, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    To begin let me say that I am a big fan of TFA. It has been a long time (since BM) that I enjoyed a TF cartoon and actually looked forward to the next episode.

    I am also a cartoon junkie, or more appropriately an American cartoon junkie, and even more so American Superhero cartoons. This incarnation of our beloved characters blend together the TF's I love and the style of animation I have adored since B:TAS and American story telling.

    After reading a lot of the negative views towards the new show one thing sticks out. You dislike the style and the format of the show.

    I'm just curious, out of all those disliking the show, how many of you are into anime. Not just enjoying this form of animation but loving it hardcore (buying dvd's going to conventions, reading the manga, collecting figures ect ect ect)

    I'm just trying to see if my theory is correct that all those opposed to TFA are really just very much into the Japanese style of doing things.

    Thank you for your time and responces.

    Transbot90210
     
  2. MilkManX

    MilkManX TF Comicbook Fan

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    If the artstyle was more like G1 or Beast Wars I guarentee that would pull more people to watch it. Some folks just dont like stylized animation.
     
  3. axiant

    axiant Autobot paper pusher!

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    I understand you have your reasons for asking but, er this might be treading into the dangerous waters...
     
  4. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    Keep it civil, please. Only warning.
     
  5. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    I know it is dangerous water.

    The intention here is not to know why people dislike the series or love it.

    I am just curious to see if there is a correlation between those who dislike TF:A and being a fan of anime.

    Thanx
    Transbot90210
     
  6. seeker311

    seeker311 The Collector

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    I dont like it because of the animation. I like the G1 nods and the dialogue, but a robot should look like a robot. Not like Leno, or the tick or the Titans.
     
  7. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Only took 6 posts before someone made a chin comment. This will be a very productive conversation.
     
  8. lordcryotek

    lordcryotek Well-Known Member

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    I love the plot, the voice acting, and the concept behind the toys. A lot of the toys have even managed to look really nice, and I wish the cartoon did them better justice. The animation is, in my opinion, quite ugly, and looks cheap to my eyes. It's not necessarily the style that bothers me, but the lack of detail put into the style. A similar style can be pulled off with a bit more care and detailing and look really nice (as seen in, say, that guy Josh's artwork) or even in Clone Wars and Teen Titans. The humans in the show all look absolutely dreadful--their appearances vary from looking like cheap anime characters (Sari), to looking like people out of Home Movies (the chief guy). I've heard that this style has been used to be more kid-friendly, because kids apparently don't like detailing being put into their art (seriously, what focus group told them this?)It's better than the transformers cartoons that we've had in recent years, however, and I can respect that. I'm interested in the plot of the show, but find myself annoyed with the quality of the artwork. While the toys look considerably better than the art they're based on, I still don't find myself wanting them either.
     
  9. dare

    dare Well-Known Member

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    I like anime
    I like Teen Titans
    I like Looney Tunes
    I like most of Cartoon Network's stuff

    That said, TFA comes off a little poor, not only in plot, but in animation quality. The style may look like TT, but the quality of the framerate, action and lip-sync is FAR from the same level of QC.
     
  10. swarlock

    swarlock Autobot Supporter

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    I do like anime. But that's irrevelant that as a fan of G1 I had always expected the art style to stay the same as it always had been. But then BW came along I found that the CGI renders were too 3D for my taste. When Japan did it they unfortunately got carried away with the cel shading process.

    This angular take on the characters at first wasn't quite what I was used to. But at least they looked hand drawn which is what I DID like.

    Still it's all a matter of what is art in the eye of the beholder.
     
  11. ZeroMayhem

    ZeroMayhem Henshin a Go-Go Baby!

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    Interesting topic. So I'll add my thoughts before this becomes a train wreck of "TFA rulz vs. Sux".

    Thus far I'm not really into the series, and that stems from a few areas. I'm not in love with the writing yet, nor do I care for the style/design/animation. Honestly if I loved the writing I could get past the animation and if I loved the animation I could get past the writing. It's just that so far I'm not liking the look, and while I like the writing better, it's not by a large enough margin to hook me into the show.

    As to your question about anime and how fans of it relate to Animated. Personally I love animation, in any form. I grew up a Warner Bros animation junkie. Chuck Jones is the man. I took animation classes, and eventually went to an art college to become an illustrator. All that grew out of my love of art and cartoons. I didn't know what "anime" really was till high school. However over the years have come to love some anime, but wouldn't consider myself a massive fan of it. Like any animation from anywhere, some of it is good, but some is quite bad. I judge it on a show by show basis like any cartoon.

    When Batman:TAS first came out I fell in love with that series and it's fluid style. Timm's designs hit on almost a best of both worlds approach. The expressiveness of a western cartoon, with the grace of an eastern one. JLU stands out to me as one of the best animated/written/made cartoons ever. Great animation is great, no matter the country of origin.

    So let me bring this back to one of my biggest dislikes in TFA. The animation/design. The thing about Timm's look was it was coming off the heals of the 80's action cartoon era in the US. Where shows like He-Man, ThunderCats, SilverHawks, COPS, etc. all had a similar vibe of the muscle man hero. Timm's Batman was a breath of much needed fresh air for US animation. To this day no one does that look better then Timm. The problem is it was so well done and popular that now you have designers that ape that look and style. Everything from Jackie Chan adventures, The Batman, Hellboy, Ben 10, the upcoming Spidey, etc. etc, and now TF. It's a popular look that honestly, doesn't work for everything equally well. Plus can come off looking poor when not done properly. How many of those newer shows honestly look as good as Batman:TAS or the rest of the Timm DCverse? These knock offs are following a trend like the 80's shows did, it's no longer the new look, it's become the current overused watered down one.

    I have no issue with an all new look and style in a TF series, however when that new look is the same look as everything else and is picked to attract (or lord forbid, pander) to a specific group, and that supersedes any other consideration then it can hurt the show (I'm not saying that IS what happened on TFA, just suggesting that this particular style was chosen perhaps more for non-artistic reasons). Which hey, I understand. A kid's cartoon is product first and foremost. However when animation steps away from that a bit, you can have the best of both worlds. Batman:TAS sold toys, but damn if it's not animation art. That's why so many people love it I think, when you seem to put the art first you'll end up with a better product in the end. Perhaps that's why some people love anime too, shows like Cowboy Bebop, or FLCL, seem like art first.

    See to me, TFA doesn't look Teen Titians (and yes I liked that show). It's Ben 10. A style picked to sell a show to kids, a pale imitation of the look it has taken its cues from. Not only that but I think the animation itself seems overall choppier in TFA. Granted in some money shots they pull off a nice move, but I'd be shocked if TFA's animation budget wasn't smaller then Ben10's (certainly less then Titians since I would bet Cartoon Network is quicker with the cash for DC shows they don't have to license). That's not to say the people working on TFA aren't hard at work doing their best, but there are other constraints that can affect a series. TFA is certainly not a poorly animated show, but a show that seems to have more limited animation (see poor lip-sinc, several jerky frames) due to it's constraints.

    I like G1, I liked the BW series. Both very different looks. Truth be told I prefer TF hand animated (those few parts in Energon that where hand done were my favorites from that series). Heck, I would LOVE to see Bruce Timm design and helm a TF series. It would be amazing. I just think the look on TFA, isn't that. It's "me too" character design that I can't stand the look of (for the record I don't like The Batman's look either, more of the wanna-be but not nearly as good camp).

    TFA is what it is, no need for people to fight about it. For those who love it, and those who don't, like any other TF show there will be something new and different in time.

    Hopefully somewhere in all that I made at least one coherent point. While some fans may hate on TFA's look due to an eastern preference that's not why I dislike it. I just think it was a look that they wanted to use to sell the show to CN, and it's one I happen to dislike. I realize that a TF series will never be done with the art of animation in mind first, it will always be the toys. I'm ok with that, as a TF fan I think you have to be. As an animation fan though, man, the possibilities boggle my mind at what an original TF show could be with the chains off and the animation turned up to 11.
     
  12. Julliant

    Julliant This space for rent.

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    Agreed. At first I thought stylized art for TF will be silly, but I was wrong and I enjoyed the show. Then came the really bad animations.

    Like dare said, the framerate and lip-sync were horrible IMO.

    I still enjoy the show though. Anime style? Not into it. Big eyed cutesy humans don't go with TF well, G1 or BW was the way to go for me.
     
  13. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    WELL I like anything with good writing without thinking if it's from Japan or from America.
    HOWEVER I love TF:A mostly because of the stylized look, it's just so different from other styles used for Transformers it looks wicked IMO.
     
  14. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    Well I don't think TFA is Anime.
    I like Anime a lot, but I don't think the animation in Animated is the TF label worthy... also some elements of childish behaviour bothers me in Animated... especially BB I'd like to see terminated.

    My blood pressure goes up the roof when watching Animated so I'm better of skipping the show.
     
  15. Johnator

    Johnator 'Til All Are Gone!

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    I personally don't really care for anime one way or the other. I honestly just don't like the look of Transformers Animated. I like the stories so far so I continue to watch it but I seriously doubt I will buy many of the toys. Here is my main complaint. They don't look like robots. That is it plain and simple. I actually like The Batman and LOVE The Batman Animated Series by Bruce. I also like all the older cartoons such as Thundercats, G. I. Joe, and of course Transformers. I even like older still stuff like Looney Tunes. I honestly would have no problem Transformers Animated style if it were for a regular superhero show. It would work for that but for robots it just doesn't. I honestly wish they had made them more "robot-like" if you will so that I could really believe that they are Transformers. They just don't look the part. Again I do LIKE the show since the stories seem decent (Starscream seemed awesome and Megatron is well done so far) but I don't LOVE the show simply because a lot of times I don't feel like I am watching robots at all but rather superheroes who want to BE robots.
     
  16. Ziero

    Ziero TFW2005 Supporter

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    First off, yes I am an Anime fan, who owns anime DVDs and the like. But in the end, I am an animation fan first and foremost, regardless of where it originates from. To me, "Anime" is treated as the word was originally intended to be used, a term that is used for ALL animated products (bugs bunny is 'anime' in japan iirc).

    Having said that, being a japanese anime fan has no bearing on my like, or in this case dislike, of a western show. I watch and enjoy just as many, if not more, western cartoons as I do eastern ones, and infact overtly decree that shows like Avatar, Samurai Jack and JLU are *far* better series then most japanese anime out there. I have no problems with 'stylized' animation, as long as it fits with the characters, and this type of animation does not fit well with Transformers IMO.

    Personally, I always enjoyed the fact that Transformers was more of a story about an intergalatic war then a 'super hero' story. So the direction this show was created with, combined with the highly stylized design style are in complete contrast with the ideals that I always enjoyed most about Transformers. And while I am a big DCAU fan and absoluetly love the DCAU universe (moreso then the comics themselves) I have *never* been fond of their robotic designs as it always seemed more of a 'guy in a suit' look then a mechanical design. And with the mimiced DCAU style they decided to use for this series, it only brings to light the major flaws in this type of robotic design imo.

    I, for one, am proof in opposition to your theory, as I do not like the style on it's own merits, as opposed to some pre-disposition of ideal animation design. To me, all animation is something that should be viewed and judged on it's own merits, regardless of where it originated from.

    To be as blunt as possible, the over sized, over stylized chins DO affect the over all look of the robot design, and in fairly negative fashion impo. When I look at the Starscream toy, I see an awesome robot with an excellent design...but an absurd head. And I feel the same way about both versions of Prime and especially Bumblebee with his enormous head, to the point that I can eagerly pass on both of them. Prime has always had a heroic, squared jaw, this one just has a horrendously over exaggerated version of it, which in the end takes away from his over all look.

    I have never QFT'd something as sincerely as I am QFT this post. It is made of Win and God.



    In the end, I do not *hate* the show, in fact I rather enjoy watching it. But there are parts of it that I do not, nor can not enjoy fully. And much of those dislikes stem from the choice of art design they decided to utilize.
     
  17. Dark_Convoy

    Dark_Convoy Old Bastard Veteran

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    While I like the show, mainly because the story, characters and fun factor, I still don't like the animation style or character designs of the robots or the humans. I will go as far as to say that the style makes me cringe.

    The story, characters and voice acting saves it.
     
  18. Johnator

    Johnator 'Til All Are Gone!

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    :thumbs2:  Well said!
     
  19. ThaConqueror

    ThaConqueror Rock! Robot Rock!

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    This is going to end up really ugly...

    What I don't understand is how many people still don't get that TF: Animated is made by the same people who made Teen Titans. They think that TFA is 'copying that style' when it it's simply using the style of previous shows by that company. How difficult is that to understand?
     
  20. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    Seconded.
     

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