Question on the Prime linage in IDW.

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by kaijuguy19, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Energon Enthusiast

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    I think when Metroplex said he "knows" Optimus he meant more that he knew his type, since Metroplex also talked about history repeating itself. Autocracy and its ilk are also kind of the awkward stepchildren of IDW who are generally ignored by the likes of Roberts and Barber because they contradict previously established material and just don't really fit the continuity that well.

    Now, I think Jhiaxus's rantings and ravings from exRID might be a bit stronger evidence, since his ramblings about "Thirteen" (referring to the 13 Regenesis Ores) then trail off into him talking to Optimus. Jhiaxus definitely knew more than he let on. This dialogue is at least vague enough that the reader can reasonably make the connection. I think Jhiaxus even alluded to Unicron at one point.

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  2. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

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    Except autocracy is canon. Metroplex specifically says he knew Orion pax by another name before giving him the matrix, the name was likely optimus prime. Metroplex was also the first Titan he rose, a feat he accomplished before acquiring the matrix.
     
  3. Noxex

    Noxex Well-Known Member

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    I want to interject in order to counter the notion that Autocracy is somehow out of canon. If you the Roberts/Barber era in the order presented in the IDW Collection it fits perfectly well. There are many references to its events in both titles, and I believe much work was done to make it fit. I'm sure there are some small errors, and no doubt someone is making a list of them soon... I think that the two sequals are not nearly as good, but this notion that it doesnt fit I think was something that seemed true upon its original release, but in the full context of that year's stories it seems like "part of the plan." Someone with more time than me should really go through and it and make a better case for it being definitively canonical, because it clearly is, based on the number of references to it that both writers have done.
     
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  4. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    I mean, Zeta Prime gets referenced often enough, and Autocracy was all about fighting him. Even his Autocracy look shows up.
     
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  5. JasonPrime

    JasonPrime Well-Known Member

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    I suppose this Prime Wars trilogy is building up to a return of at least some of the original Primes. I'm guessing Onyx Prime will be the primary antagonist, he seems to be the one getting the most build up.
     
  6. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    I expect Sentinel Prime/Infinitus will eventually climb out of that pit he fell in sometime in a year or two from now.
     
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  7. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    Here I am with that list.

    -Chaos Theory established that the first time Optimus Prime and Megatron met under those names was during the Battle of Sherma Bridge.
    -Chaos Theory also established that they had only met eachother briefly before that... and the impact that meeting had on eachother even though it was so short was pretty significant.
    -Needless to say Orion and Megatron never worked together.
    -There are plenty of indications that Grimlock actually started the war as a Decepticon.
    -It was established in Bullets that Megatron "positively emptied" Zeta Prime's head with a bullet.
    -MTMTE established that this was done via a public assasination using Vos' sniper rifle mode.
    -All Hail Megatron established that Ironhide met Optimus only after the war began and he didn't immediately respect his command. He certainly didn't work for him before the war.

    I'm sure there are plenty more that I'm just not remembering off the top of my head.
     
  8. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    What makes you think the Vos scene was hitting Zeta? I don't see anything referencing what he was targeting there,

    I mean, in Autocracy, Megatron blew Zeta's head off, which sounds "positively emptied" to me.
     
  9. Sockie

    Sockie Veteran

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    Bullets said Zeta was killed by a sniper.
     
  10. Noxex

    Noxex Well-Known Member

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    I think there's enough normal comic book wriggle room on this one - Megatron knew he wasn't telling the truth in Chaos Theory about this being their first meeting. So there's room for another meeting in between the Whirl incident and Sherma Bridge.

    Same with this - the other stories are vague enough for this to fit. I recall a panel where Grimlock has both badges in his hand, as if he's deciding. This could have taken place at any time.

    That's the main one that I noticed. They're close enough for me, either one is a "gunshot that ended a civilization." I could see if you're a major stickler for continuity why this one might be bad. I don't remember the part about Vos though.

    Oh this is totally a retcon, and the Autocracy version is the better version IMO.

    Thanks for putting this list together, BTW. I still think it counts as canon, and the errors are within the normal margin of error for a comic book prequal written by a different team than is writing the main books. Marvel/DC regularly ignore much bigger stories all the time.
     
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  11. Stryker055

    Stryker055 Trying my best here!

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    Aside from Alpha Trion (who's still kind of a dick), most of what we know of the Thirteen suggests that they were all a bunch of arrogant bastards during their time on Cybertron. Onyx Prime is almost certainly evil, and Nexus was proooobably a bad guy just from association with him. Prima could have been all right, but with a guy like Nova high in his ranks, that's questionable.

    The implication I got is that all of the Thirteen had basically tricked their followers into thinking that they were nigh-immortal demigods in order to control them, and then when some guy killed Nexus, their whole cult shattered and they all got the hell out of dodge before their followers started to turn on them. The good part there is that it leaves room for character development; for example, it seems like Micronus created the Microverse partially to try and make up for leaving his people on Prion to die.

    It's pretty heavily implied that Optimus is and was very well aware of the shady and amoral things going on in the war, but purposefully turned a blind eye to it in order to preserve his image (more for the war effort than selfishness) and maintain morale. If word came out that Optimus Prime was okay with stuff like Aequitas, the New Institute, etc., his support would probably drop significantly, at least during most of the war.
     
  12. Noxex

    Noxex Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else notice this in the Optimus bio from Revolution #5: Occupation: Autobot. One of the Thirteen Primes. Since Barber wrote that it pretty much confirms it. I trust him to do something with it better than reincarnation, at least I hope so.
     
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  13. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    And I don't know if it's so much a 'blind eye' as 'don't publicize while sending Magnus to bring them in.'

    The New Institute got shut down at some point. Everyone got brought in to those Aequitas trials. Etc..
     
  14. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Well this whole lineage thing is going to get a lot more convoluted real soon with the Power of the Primes vote.
     
  15. Optimax Prime

    Optimax Prime The 14th Prime

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    Thank you, also Optimus Primal is getting the most votes on the forum page for that
     
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  16. LordGigaIce

    LordGigaIce A Chair!

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    Well we know that the Matrix bonded with Rodimus, so it's probably fair to assume he's a proper Prime, even if no one recognizes him as such. And there were thirteen of them running around at one point. Hell, A3, Onyx, and Micronus are still kicking in some form. It seems that the idea that there could only be one Prime at a time started with Nova, but it's not a hard and fast rule. So it's possible for both Rodimus and whoever wins this vote to exist as Primes alongside Optimus and whatever members of the Thirteen are still alive.
     
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  17. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    I really doubt that's a comic thing. You know, with multiple of the options being dead, and a good number of them being nonsensical for the IDW versions.