Question on Morality and Ethics

Discussion in 'The Toyark' started by wheeljaxx, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. wheeljaxx

    wheeljaxx Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    3,355
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    with the recent spark of debate on remakes, KO's and reproduction stickers and parts, i've been pondering a few ideas of my own. First a few points: Reprolabels, for the majority it seems, are well recieved. those who enjoy replacing old stickers can, and those who want to customise alternators, or even lego people can. Reprolabels, on occasion have reproduced limited sets, such as the takara lucky draw orion pax set, and have infringed it seems on a few fauxpas.
    Transrepro, in it's day reproduced hard to find parts, that the original got a few big $$ for on e-bay, even going so far as to reproduce my beloved marlboor Wj head, coupled along with reprolabels repro sticker kit, have made it possible for a wider range of collectors to atleast have a look a like in thier colections. I have an original, but i don't really care about value. i wanted it, i got it. no body really seemed to put up too much of a fuss, but theu had thier naysayers.

    Now we have this factory in China, pumping out old hasbro molded transformer toys, on vintage cards and boxes. the problem here, is that they are darn near identical to the originals, untill you get them side by side and feel the quality, wich, on the most part baffles alot of people, but again, this issue as it's for and against group... im in the for group, i can't wait for these re-makes.

    Now for my question... With the advent of such remakes, repro stickers and parts, breaking in on the market, potentially bringing down the price of such rarities ( takara issueing stepper, bring that originals price drasticly down) and the fan outcrying to remake the 4 dino cassettes, wich will ultimatly bring thier price down as well...
    I am in the position of such... whats the word... business men, where i have in my possesion an item that i know will hold both high intrest on the collector market, for people such as myslef, and also start a raging fire amongst anti-remake/KO collectors.

    What i've done, is taken my Original Canadian Pepsi Optimus Prime, Vector traced the trailor stickers and had them printed on an industry only high quality sticker paper. Compared to my original, there are subtle differences in quality, and color, but for the most part, they look really cool looking, all brand new and shiny. I did this in the wake of the RATTRAP/FRED/ME fiasco. I see now that in my rage over the event, my ideas were pretty lowdown, wanting to debunk the value of the prime that may be going back to fred... but i held back. morals got the better of me. but now i'm thinking, ok, there may be people out there that really want a Pepsi prime, and they may not care if it's original or not. I have 10 sheets printed, the printers minimum requirement to use the paper. I WILL PRINT NO MORE, they cost enough as is.

    DO I OFFER THESE TO THE PUBLIC, or DESTROY THEM?
     
  2. Team Jetfire

    Team Jetfire Pop-POP!

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Posts:
    5,889
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +13
    Sell them as repro lables, but change enough to enure no one gets scammed.
     
  3. wheeljaxx

    wheeljaxx Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    3,355
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    i designed mine with a black outline/cut line. if you cut OUTSIDE the black line, then they are unique, if you cut INSIDE the cutline, then they are very hard to tell, unless you compare the color tones.

    i can not, or WILL Not print anymore, so i'm not re-designing these with any changes. there are 10 sets, and ONLY 10 sets.
     
  4. flux convoy

    flux convoy RIP Botcon.

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Posts:
    2,077
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Location:
    Spinning my wheels into the void.
    Likes:
    +47
    Ebay:
    I could care less about repro parts and labels. I've bought from Reprolabels and greatly appreciate the service they provide for the fandom. When an entire product is being produced and sold as original, well that kinda burns me a bit. I think it's a great alternative for people who can't afford orignals, certainly. Reproducing the packaging in exact detail is simply wrong though. As for your question, man sell your sheets and set your price. I don't think anyone could stop you if they wanted to anyway. I don't see any moral quandary here. Best of luck with your sales.
    BTW, I've always admired your sig/avatar model. I think she's gorgeous.
     
  5. Rattrap

    Rattrap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Posts:
    2,149
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    206
    Likes:
    +3
    Ebay:
    Mabe buy a regular Prime, and sell him as a Repro Pepsi Prime. Be sure to say they they are just a regular Optimus Prime with a Repro sticker on the side. Otherwise, if you cant afford to do that, just sell the stickers. Oh, and I also got a ton of Mirages and Grimlocks, I would have picked them up for you, but you never sent me your address. I can still get them, mabe sometime this week, if you still didnt find them.
     
  6. Boo

    Boo Addicted to candy canes.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,260
    Trophy Points:
    226
    Likes:
    +0
    Ebay:
    I don't see any moral or ethical problems at all. So long as the people are made explicitely aware that these stickers a repros... who cares?

    As far as value on the secondary market, as far as I'm concerned, that's only the concern of the consumers. If you pay a high price for something, you better be aware that the value may decrease just as much as it could increase. A company such as Hasbro or Takara has every right to pump out more of a particular product if they feel they can make more money off of it, as in the case of reissues.
     
  7. Optimus Scourge

    Optimus Scourge Arcee's boy toy Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    7,670
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    221
    Likes:
    +5
    I buy KO's. And reprolabels. I have all the originals, too. I have a feeling more stuff is gonna be KO'ed. (hopefully dino cassettes!) I can't afford the real price, so I'm all for it.

    I'd buy 'em in a heartbeat. I can't afford no $600 or more for a real one, and I have always wanted one. I see no harm as your not trying to pass these off as real ones. And it's not like there are many Canadian Pepsi Primes for sale. I have only seen a handfull in ages on ebay and I saw one in person at a Botcon, it was beat as hell and the guy wanted $400 for it.
     
  8. Team Jetfire

    Team Jetfire Pop-POP!

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Posts:
    5,889
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +13
    I guess the only issue is that the people who buy them may see an opportunity to use this to scam another buyer. That being the case I don’t really think that it should be on your conscience if that happened as it could happen with any repro label.

    I dunno, if you even tried to sell them, would there be much interest anyways?


    And I too find the model in your sig very attractive.
    Did the ep of KINK that you were on, already air?
     
  9. Triformis

    Triformis Insecticon Fanatic TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Posts:
    4,659
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Likes:
    +0
    I don't see that much wrong with it as long as you either sell them attached to Primes and label them as "repros" or just sell the sticker sets, so others can transform their Primes into Pepsi Primes.

    Seems to me you're just doing the same thing as Reprolabels or maybe I'm missing something. Why destroy them? I see no point and it'd be a shame (and a waste of money and time), I would think.
     
  10. kllrwlf

    kllrwlf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Posts:
    776
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +0
    Agreed... sell them as repro labels and that's that.

    Trying to sell them as original would be bad... but letting people know that you've made/printed them is good. :) 
     
  11. misterd

    misterd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Posts:
    3,700
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    I don't mind KOs so much as long as they are not taking business from the main company. By and large what I see are piss poor toys, or toys that the main company has no plans on releasing. Same thing for toy parts. If Takara won't offer reissues, or Hasbro takes away Alt Camshaft's gun barrel, they leave a vacancy for competition. I think most of us would much rather support the orginal companies, as they usually offer solid products at reasonable prices.

    As for the after market, I don't much give a damn. If you bought it as a collector, be happy you have it. If you bought it for speculation, you gambled on market forces and lost. If the people who make the toys can lose money on them, so can the people who invested no work in them.
     
  12. ckhtiger

    ckhtiger old skool fool

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Posts:
    6,318
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +3
    I think it's funny how in this community people (including myself) are ok with repro parts, stickers, etc., yet in the gi joe community, people are pretty much across the board against them.
     
  13. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2002
    Posts:
    23,601
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Likes:
    +85
    Yeah exactly...I think the problems people are having with these knockoffs stem from the possibility of being sold AS ORIGINALS. If you make sure people know they are repros and they know what they're buying, I don't see the problem.
     
  14. fschuler

    fschuler Member TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Posts:
    2,202
    Trophy Points:
    216
    Likes:
    +0
    Huh. I'm not part of the Joe community, and I didn't realize that. Maybe its because some of the original parts were, IMO, of low quality to begin with, and hence, easier to duplicate with the intention of hoodwinking would-be collectors. Again, though, I'm not a Joe fan, so I don't have much experience upon which to base my opinion.

    And Wheeljaxx, I don't see any problem at all with selling the stickers you've made. You obviously went through some effort to produce some high quality reproductions, and, provided they are marketed as such, I don't see any moral quandry in selling them! Maybe you could sticker-up a few primes and get 'ol Freddo to bite! :lol 
     
  15. wheeljaxx

    wheeljaxx Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    3,355
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    i've decided to sell these as repro lables. less confusion that way. there are 5 sets on ebay now, and 5 will be held onto incase anyone here wants a set. may have even already sold one...

    thanks for the advise.
     
  16. misterd

    misterd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Posts:
    3,700
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    Is this the 3.75 community, the 12 inch community, or the SuperJoe community (what do you mean there isn't one?)?

    I don't see why there would be a problem except, as fshuler noted, it would be too easy to pass off as genuine. Given all the small parts in that line, I'd think they'd be a God send.
     
  17. wheeljaxx

    wheeljaxx Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Posts:
    3,355
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +0
    The whole joe thing may extend back to the good ole days of the weapons packs. i was happy to have them. as a chid, i lost alot of parts, but even then, i was kinda peeved that they wern't the right colors. even today ive seen people cringe at "100% complete" figures that have OFFICIAL joe parts, just clearly from the weapons packs.
     
  18. Omegatron

    Omegatron Mandatory Fun. Buy it now TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    8,092
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +11
    Ebay:
    I have no problem with parts or sticerks being re-produced by other companies. For example, there are many companies out there that make car parts that will work in my car. I could buy genuine Ford parts, or buy the Autozone brand and save a few bucks. Even more in the reprocompanies' favors is that these are parts/ stickers that aren't even produced anymore.

    -Tony!
     
  19. LigerPrime

    LigerPrime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2002
    Posts:
    20,581
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    322
    Likes:
    +53
    IMO its ok if you make it clear that their "repros" and if possible, have them er, 'marked' in such a way that the potential buyer would be able to pass them off as the real thing. I doubt Hasbro would be so petty to look you up for 10 pieces of repro labels.

    With regards to the KO coming out of China...I think even Hasbro and TakaraTomy will have difficulties stopping the makers...that country is so frigging big and er, money-driven world and corporate governance in China is er, dodgy...Mark my words...if the KP makers could reproduce the whole line of G1 and if its profitable, they would definately do it.

    I believe some toy companies like SOTA and CM have already experienced the same problems of China factories producing KO of their products.
     
  20. chazparks

    chazparks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Posts:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +1
    Do the KO toys have the date of the toy on them? Some of the toys have the year they were made/distributed on them. If the KOs don't have this or have a wrong date then that would be easy to tell the difference.
     

Share This Page