This is why I stopped hanging around here. I hate whiner-whining so much. Its such a waste of brain cells. This is a DISCUSSION FORUM. If you just want to hear people who agree with you, WTF are you doing here? Okay... no more whiner-whining-whining from me. That's probably even worse.  

So I am in the third camp-- I'm very not okay with what Michael Bay has taken upon himself to do with something that we hold dear. I can't say he's "wrong" for doing it as it will almost certainly prove successful (profitable).

I think we (myself included) lose sight of what TF is. We see it as art when in actuality, it exists purely to get money out of our wallets. If casting every TF in pink and marketing them to girls was more profitable, they would do it in a heartbeat. There is NO sentimentality. This is pure capitalism. The changes were made to get money out of the wallets of a broader audience and it will almost certainly work.

That said, I think things could be worse. About half of the mainline movie toys (in my estimation) are seemingly still made by people who love to design awesome toys Leader Class Prime, even with the Michael Bay flames and alien looking tech details... is a fantastic figure.

I am going to do my best to enjoy it for what it is. While I will not dream of picking up a pile of puke like that Starscream figure (because it wreaks of everything f'd up about the movie), there are plenty of toys that still feel and look enough like TFs to capture the essence of why we love these things to begin with...

I would also like to add- even if it doesn't apply in the case of the movie, there is something to be said for change. While Movie Ironhide (for example) has many unconventional design elements a lot of that figure works incredibly well and I hope to see these things incorporated into the Transformers tradition.

There are good things coming out of the movie... my suggestion to my fellow Bay haters is to just focus on that.

 

I'm not talking about G1's designs, but some of those TF aren't nearly as fluid as you might think. Some have the same weaknesses as the older TF. Like all the kibble in the backs of Blackout and Brawl. Some of the designs don't allow for such human-like movement like the Autobots did, that's why some Decepticons look so monstrous in aesthetic.

 

***EDIT***

-TFW2005 Staff

Heh Heh, the "resort to swearing" response.
Does that mean I've won the "teddy chucking" contest you started?

 

Wow...just wow.

So, yeah...anyway. I have two things to say:

1. Prime just scanned a truck that someone had painted flames on. He's from another planet, and has no idea of their cultural significance here on Earth, or how they would reflect on his personality. It's not like he scanned a beat up old truck and then asks someone to paint them on for him after spending lots of time on Earth. He just wants an alt. mode. Perfectly in character for him, IMO.

2. With regard to Frenzy and Bay's knowledge of the name...have you ever heard Spielberg talk about the Indiana Jones movies in interviews? He's constantly using the phrases "Raiders 2" or "the third Raiders movie", even today. Because to him, very early on, all he knew was that he was making a sequel to "Raiders of the Lost Ark". Today, as an audience, we're used to the "Indiana Jones and the..." titling, often even applying that title to the first film.

But as a member of the production from the get go, Spielberg needed a name to call the project before a final title was decided on and "Raiders 2" was as good a name as any. So it's what he's used to calling it because it's what he called it first. But would anyone accuse Spielberg of not knowing the names of the movies he's directed?

Seems to be the same thing here.

 

Does your girlfriend know you made her look stupid in front of an entire message board? Absolutely outstanding lack of knowledge there, smiler. Not to mention a seemingly complete absence of the ability to read other people's posts.

 

I guess people could call themselves a fan because we all like different things. Just because you are fan of Transformers doesn't mean that you have to like everything Transformers. You could be a fan of Prime but that would not mean that you had to like every single form Prime has appeared in. We all just sort of pick and chose what we are going to put into our own personal Transformers mythology and what parts we are going to leave out or modify.

Someone that was a Transformers fan before the movie hit that loves the movie is still a Transformers fan just the same as someone who doesn't like the movie is still a Transformers fan. Would be rather dull and boring if we all had to like and dislike the same things.

 

I try to keep out of these arguments as much as I can, because arguing with either camp can be like screaming at a wall. So I will just say this:

I don't have a lot of friends who are Transformers fans. A lot of my friends are females whose love of 80's nostalgia extends to My Little Pony and Jem.

A LOT of my friends saw Pirates 3 over the weekend. They all saw the Transformers trailer. A lot of my friends, who were never TF fans to begin with, are now drooling to see this movie. People on the radio, 40- and 50-somethings who couldn't tell Optimus Prime from potato salad, are saying that they want to see this movie.

In the end, we can argue about Prime's flames, Starscream's "monkey body", and whether Bay should be flayed for not knowing the name of a character that's probably not mentioned by name anywhere in the film. The fact is that Bay has created a movie that appeals to the mainstream. In the end, that's all that moviemakers strive for, to make a movie that appeals to those beyond the target market.

So matter how much we whine, so far the film has been a success.

 

I hate ENERGON and CYBERTRON. I don't kick up a stink about it or say they were 'killing' Transformers, I just shrugged my shoulders and moved onto the next thing (in my case, the movie), letting those who liked E and C enjoy them.

100% of TF fans were never going to like the film - You'd be hard-pressed to find a fan who liked everything TF related prior to the movie, after all. Just do what I did for those earlier series: Shrug your shoulders and move onto the next things (in the case of those who don't like the movie, it'll be 'HEROES') and leave the movie to those who will enjoy it (amongst whose numbers I count myself).

 

G2 Laser Rod Prime would like a word with you. He thinks his flames are awesome, so much so that he's gonna go share it with a forest!

The Internet Makes You Stupid.

And reveals you to be either a 14-year old kid or a rather immature 25-year old.

 

It shoud been a little longer ,but it was still good !! He's explanation on Starscream's design is something I thought of for a while !!

He's legs hide under the motor and that's huge. the traditional leg design woudn't fit under it !!

 

You're mistaken; Bay said last summer he liked how the flame pattern created a bit of a rib section on Prime's sides, where the truck doors go. Now he's saying he picked the flames because he liked them. That's not contradictory, it's just that he isn't elaborating this time.

That said, Prime is red and blue ain't he? I haven't seen any combinations of red and blue on a truck that is any less gaudy than a flame deco, which is at least a real-world application.

 

Wait a minute -what?
There is a Transformers movie coming out?
When? When does this movie come out?

It's directed by Michael Bay?
That sux0rs. He did a terrible job with Godzilla.

I can't believe this is the first post I have ever read on this site about a Transformers movie. Or Rolan- err Michael Bay.
Or Godzilla for that matter.

 

So, just curious...Are the people who like what Bay has chosen to do with the designs saying that his designs would be more successful than more traditional designs? I'd argue that you'd have a much happier fanbase along with the same amount of people drooling over the movie simply because the CG quality is great if you went with more traditional designs (I'm not saying G1 designs, just more traditional). I honestly think the CG quality is what has a lot of people drooling instead of looking at the designs and going "wow, those designs are the best they could possibly be". I think the designs could be MUCH better than they currently are, so I'm just hoping for some changes in Transformers 2 and 3. I don't think the designs are practical or as Bay would call them "real". It's been said before, but I'll say it again...the designs look easily damaged to the point where the character would be useless after several well placed punches as there isn't really armor to stop a foe from damaging the internals like the G1 characters and other more traditional transformers have had. I'm not saying that Bay should have used G1 designs, but there had to be a better design choice than what we ended up with and that's why I can say that Bay, and even Hasbro have lost their way. The fans of a series determine if it's truly a TF or just an attempt at making money w/ the TF name slapped on it. The movie has okay designs, but some of them are horrible (the heads are pretty much horrible for all of them since most look too insectoid). Hopefully we'll get better designs for the sequels, since Bay has plenty of time to research what fans think before he starts filming the next ones.

 

Since they plotted out how each Transformer can move, I'd love to see a walk cycle for each of them.

 

Not more successful, just that they work better in a live action setting and that ILM is satisfied with how they look. It's not crazy to think that ILM tried the more traditional aesthetic. And that for them they weren't satisfied with how it looked. Transformers animated and Transformers live action are 2 different beasts. What works for one won't necessarily work the other. The exception is the comic since the prequels show that traditional or theILM way. In picture form it works the same

And for the record the traditional aesthetic is rooted with G1. So when you're talking tradition you are also making reference to G1

You're wrong on that, what people are going "WOW" over is seeing the models in motion. For the longest time Don Murphy and Michael Bay and Tom DeSanto have been saying "Wait till you see them move" Now we're seeing them move. And that's why they look incredible

 

Hasbro has lost its way?
Have you been on a toy aisle recently?

Transformers currently dominates the toy aisle to an extent that I have never seen -even way back in the 85.

And yes, from what I have seen they seem to be selling -fast.

 

I have been, and all the movie stuff is just sitting there. It's not like classics where the stuff was gone and pretty much stayed gone for a couple months in my area. The movie toys are just taking up space in my area, so I'm glad to see that some areas are doing well at least.


To address some other people, my friends saw the movie and thought the movie looked great, but when I later showed him the designs he had seen, he thought they looked horrible. So even if the designs look good moving to someone, it doesn't mean the design is good. Most thing generally look better when moving. And I think that most TF designs have been fairly traditional up until now (including most of the newer TV series). By traditional, I mean the TF's have an armor-like coating on the outside that is comprised of pieces from their alt modes. In other words, you don't have tons of important internal mechanical parts exposed.

 

Or maybe it's just evidence that still concept art is a poor representation of the end product.

 

This thread is fast approaching classic status

 

Correction, generic status. The traditional versus Movie design die has been cast and the thread is beyond the threshold of hope...