Prime vs Prime

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by FACEBOX, Jul 15, 2017.

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Which version of Optimus would win in a fight?

  1. Original trilogy Optimus Prime

    27 vote(s)
    67.5%
  2. Knight Optimus Prime

    13 vote(s)
    32.5%
  1. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    If we're only talking about standart versions and not power ups (in which case OT wins easily);

    Knight Optimus does seem to have less stamina. In the Bumblebee fight scene, when he was pinned to the ground by Bee, he couldn't get up for 15 second and in return ate a hammer to the face (yes Cade was on top of him but Optimus was bloodlusted and was still in trance so I don't think it was because of Cade AND he was visibly trying to get up but failed). He was also pinned by Lockdown's projectiles and the sword going through his chest but I think this can be excused. Remember, Lockdown's projectile was made of a very durable material and was traveling at high speed , it's understandable that it might have messed Prime up. In both instances, the objects went through his inner workings. We've never seen OT Prime's chest getting pierced that badly (only in one instance in Forest Battle before his death, he was still moving when he was stabbed by Megatron but so was Knight Prime in AOE when he was stabbed by Lockdown).

    Skill wise, they're the same, both go through Decepticons like butter (I don't think a few years of practice makes much of a difference, especially considering that they're thousands of years old.)

    I mean, Knight Optimus does have that flying ability but he doesn't use it that often, I don't think that's a game changer.

    Firepower wise, AOE Optimus' gun seemed kinda weak, LK Prime's (in full power) could push Bumblebee off when its projectile exploded near him. LK gun in its rapid fire mode was pretty weak and only seemed to be an annoyance to Bumblebee. On the other hand, Movie one Optimus' weapon teared off pieces from Megatron's armor, in ROTF, it threw Megatron, a multi ton metal man, through a wall. OT Prime's firepower seems stronger.

    So yes, OT likely wins if we consider them different individuals and go off simply by their showings.


    Well in some stories, traveling back in time merely creates alternate universes. Meaning these Primes might be their alternate universe selves instead of really really being the same guy. It's unknown which rule Bayverse would follow in terms of time travel though (if it were to happen, it would probably be the way you describe it though).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  2. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally TFW2005 Supporter

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    Oh yeah you're right!!! This thread is not a right place for me, but I still want to say something:) 
    I was thinking much about this scene, I feel that He just put across Lockdown *hehe Don't think that Autobots are naive:)  He needed to learn what Lockdown wants and after New-Mexico battle He understood, that Lockdown isn't going to kill Him. At the same time, I'm sure, He knew that Dinobots and Temenos sword are on the ship. So what is the easiest way to get inside? Pretend that you're surrender;)  Plus, He got some time to think about Galvatron. He was in good form that moment and wounds from Lockdown shoot apparently weren't heavy.
    Yeah, it's an evolution. Every Movie He becomes more strong, agile, skillful. I also think that sleek, graceful look is an advantage. Medieval armor was becoming sleeker and athletic suits are also sleek. Even cars become sleeker to reduce windage. So, yeah, it's an upgrade. We may only argue whether we like new LOOK and weapon. PS. TLK battle with Bumblebee was strangely weak in terms of choreography and, intense. Obviously, Quintessa doesn't know, how to fight.:p 
     
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  3. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    That's my theory on how time travel might actually work but I've never seen any fiction use time travel that way. They always end up erasing the original time line and replacing it with the new one. What stories are you talking about where it just creates an alternate universe. I'd be very interested in reading or seeing something like that as it avoids all the typically paradoxes of typical time travel stories.
     
  4. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Well, according to rules of Marvel Multiverse, when someone travels to the past, they create an alternate universe, the writers usually ignore this but even then, the erased timelines in the stories were always retconned into alternate realities in Handbooks and such. (for example, time travel in Age of Ultron was treated like it creating a different universe in one of the Marvel Handbook)

    There are times where it was written with the rule in mind, there was the Fantastic Four: A Death in the Family comic, where it was said that the timeline created an alternate universe.

    The rule was also mentioned in a TF UK story. There was that one time that Galvatron with Cyclonus and Scourge traveled to the past and took charge of the Decepticons, he was very careful not to change anything for fear of changing his future. But at some point, he realised that his changes might not matter to the future since it's very possible that when the time travel altered the timeline, it created an alternate universe. This was never mentioned again in the later stories though and the time travel continued to be treated like it actually changes the future (and indeed it did).

    Galvatron II from the US stories also thought of the same thing when he was thinking whether killing Megatron would affect him or not since he speculated that he was from a different universe/alternate future.

    That's all I can think of right now but it's a legitimate thing in some fiction. It's used very rarely.

    I think the new Star Trek movies also used something like that but I'm not sure.
     
  5. FACEBOX

    FACEBOX Well-Known Member

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    Sure, they're the same character.
    My question was due to the drastic design change. Maybe even behavioral changes from one design to the other.

    So though they're the same character, imagine that they weren't for the sake of argument.
    To go even further....Nemesis Prime vs the Original if it helps.

    An example of progression is Bumblebee's fighting skills. They have obviously improved during the course of the 5 movies. The recent version even held his own against Optimus!
    No way this could have happened in the previous movies.
     
  6. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Star Trek has always treated time travel as actually changing the future. They even had an episode were a change in the past actually changed the TNG crew. Tasha Yar was still alive and the Enterprise was on a war mission. There were no children on board. Guinean was the only one on the crew who even realized that anything had changed. With the new movies the only reason that Nimoy's Spok isn't effected by the time change is because typically in Star Trek time travels are able to retain memories from the old time line which no longer exists. Presumably because they were displaced from time when the change took place. So basically Old Spok and his belongings are the last remnance of a erased time line.
     
  7. John TheDestroyer

    John TheDestroyer I rise, you fall

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    Multiple timelines bro. If Knight Optimus goes back to kill younger Optimus, Knight Optimus would still exist since the timeline he travelled back in time to is a different timeline than the one he travelled from. More experience and a larger arsenal would mean Knight Optimus would probably wins.
     
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  8. John TheDestroyer

    John TheDestroyer I rise, you fall

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    Why do you think that? Just because he hasn't used them get doesn't mean he doesn't have them. He used his regular energon blade from the old trilogy in Aoe. It would be logical that if he kept that weapon when he upgraded, then he would have kept his other weapons too.
     
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  9. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    I don't much about Star Trek, sorry. What you said might be true.
     
  10. G1DeadEnd

    G1DeadEnd Bring on 5, 6, 7 & 8!

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    I think the Knight version has more plot armour.
     
  11. Unicrons Herald

    Unicrons Herald Chaos Bringer

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    Actually, it has been confirmed that the 2009 ST movie's time-travel also created an alternate universe. It was mentioned in the movie at least one time, and the alternate universe is called Kelvinverse. Travelling through a black hole not only goes through time, but also space/dimension.

    Now about the topic at hand; Unknown.
     
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  12. MeekMeekMeek

    MeekMeekMeek Member

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    This. The new truck absolutely blows
     
  13. vatarian

    vatarian snide spider

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    Fuckin? What?

    Knight Optimus was paralyzed after Lockdown shot him clear through the chest twice with a sniper-rifle.

    I don't think the old body would've fared any better.
     
  14. LightningBlade3

    LightningBlade3 Destined to be a Prime

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    Optimus' old body took direct hits from Megatron's fusion cannon at pretty close ranges and only went flying. It was only after Megs impaled him, then fired did Optimus fall. And even then, Prime was already heavily damaged from the forest fight.
     
  15. vatarian

    vatarian snide spider

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    The fusion cannon was an AOE weapon. It blasted off armor and stunned Op a bit.

    Lockdown's cranial rifle was literally a sniping weapon that pierced all the way through Optimus' body and caused shrapnel to emerge from an exit wound clear on the other side.

    Shot for shot, Lockdown's rifle is MUCH more dangerous.
     
  16. LightningBlade3

    LightningBlade3 Destined to be a Prime

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    The fusion cannon I'm referring to is from the first movie and ROTF; forgive me if it had a different name :p . Whether Optimus had stronger armor before or Lockdown's rifle is more powerful than the fusion cannon, we'll never know for sure. But the fact remains that Megatron's cannon only sent Prime flying, while Lockdown's rifle paralyzed him for a time on the second shot.
     
  17. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's what I'm saying.

    Although Knight Optimus still has less stamina going by the scene where Bumblebee slammed him into the ground and he couldn't get up for 15 seconds (he was visibly trying to).

    Lockdown's missile is seemingly made of a very durable material and it went through Optimus' inner workings. His projectiles appear to be very sleek, specifically designed for penetration, while Megatron seems to shoot explosive plasama balls (or if TF: The Ride is any indication, blunt edged blue glowing metal projectiles). So I don't think it's a fair comparison.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  18. vatarian

    vatarian snide spider

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    The stamina bit is true. But I don't think it was so much the new body as the fact that Optimus had just been revived from being frozen solid after a long journey through space (and then slapped around and brainwashed).

    Idk. Bays films are inconsistant trash. There's no real reason why that shouldve happened. I think it's more like "We can't have Optimus just push Bee's shit in in like a minute flat, which is what would likely happen. Let's draw this out and have Optimus flop around like a fish for a while.".
     
  19. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Could be but I don't think that was the impliction.


    That's true, one moment he shrugs off a sword going through him the moment it gets pulled off, while in another, he can't get up for a few seconds after getting slammed.

    Although, when you think about it, Knight Optimus did survive uncontrolled re-entry to Cybertron (which had comparable gravity to Earth's) in robot mode while frozen, (I'm not talking about the heat of the re-entry). So, he's not that weak (but again, it's just inconsistent).
     

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