Prime being a Knight

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by jmac703, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. jmac703

    jmac703 Well-Known Member

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    What does it mean by OP being a knight - come to think of it, what are the knights in general??

    We know he's a prime (one of the first transformers created and is more powerful than regular transformers), but he is also/later becomes a knight?
     
  2. Galva Prime

    Galva Prime Well-Known Member

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    God knows, I thought they were going to explain it with how the Dinobots fit in, and how Megatron is apparently also a knight, but they just went with some totally different knights.
     
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  3. jmac703

    jmac703 Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone guess what it means based on the comics or whatever?
     
  4. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    I'll just guess it based on the app timeline(wich may also have something that ends up canon).It's said that the Knights rose during the Beast Era on Cybertron to establish order.So they are kinda like the Jedi Knights in the sense that they are keepers of peace and order in the Universe.As we have seen in this movie they also protect important ancient artifacts and that sort of things.
     
  5. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's scriptor

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    To clarify, he's a decendant of the Primes since Optimus isn't that old. Somewhere in his career he must have been a knight, an explorer. This could have been his role rather than being a librarian. And time wise it was likely before or during Sentinel's time as leader. Baring in mind, Optimus was on Cybertron to see off both the Allspark and the Arc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  6. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    The knights are an absolute clusterfuck of bad writing. Nothing adds up and there are so many problems. They clearly had no idea where they wanted to go with the idea of the knights when writing AOE and obviously the writers gave zero shits about the seeds that AOE planted when writing TLK.

    So, Quintessa apparently hired Lockdown to collect all her knights and Lockdown specifically stated that Optimus was the last knight he needed. We were also told without any possibility of doubt that Optimus is a knight and the other knights are Grimlock, Slug, Strafe and Scorn. While of course the movies didn't bother to mention why Quintessa needed them back specifically, I guess we can assume its because she needed her staff back? But as far as we're aware Optimus had zero knowledge of the staff prior to meeting up with Quintessa, nor did he know about the other 12 Knights, despite in AOE seeming to know exactly what Lockdown was referring to when talking about the knights. What?

    Then you have the "real" knights themselves. 12 in all apparently and its stated that the twelve transformed into Dragonstorm together. But... the twelve is really damn inconsistent. The knight that gave Merlin the staff clearly couldn't have been a part of Dragonstorm so surely that means that only eleven are required, or was he not a knight? He sure as hell seemed like one. Then you have the knight that crashed into Chicago, of course with zero explanation on what the hell he was doing there and why he wasn't with the other knights. He died too, so our knights numbers are reducing rapidly. Then the TRF kill one and Nemesis Prime kills two. So if we are to assume that neither the knight that gave Merlin the staff or the knight that crashed in Chicago are actually any of the 12 knights... We still only have 9 left and yet they can still fully form Dragonstorm no problem? Stupid.

    Ignoring that, its still absolutely beyond comprehension that you have AOE make specific note of five of its characters being a part of a group of knights, then base the next movie entirely on knights and completely forget the fact you previously established knights in the last film. What on Earth? Is there some earlier script that explained this? Its a fucking mess.

    Nope, its completely for the movies.
     
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  7. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper

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    Yeah the knights literally just comes out of nowhere. I mean this angle was not established in the first 3 movies. The only thing I could think of is Bay probably thought it would be cool.

    I mean there's literally tons of source material with Transformers & Bay chose the knight theme.
     
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  8. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Optimus calls the Knights of Iacon Guardian Knights. The Dinobots are also Knights. If we go by function they are warriors who protect Cybertron and serve their lords aka Primes but at some point went renegade.

    Lockdown emphasizes that Optimus is built not born. Quintessa certainly created the Knights of Iacon. However for Optimus to be a Prime he has to be born as he is a direct descent of the Primes. We know Transformers in this setting have referenced fathers and mothers. Perhaps Optimus is closer to those hatchings massed produced on the Nemesis. Born yet manufactured. The Staff was not the only thing stolen from Quintessa by the Knights it seems as it included Optimus as he was raised on the Knightship by a group of Knights.

    This is the picture we have of ancient Cybertronian society before the Autobots. The Primes are on the top that they are considered living deities, going by Quintessa the Creators evolved into them. The Seekers who seek out stars to convert to Energon. The Knights explorers, crusaders and guardians of Cybertron.

    The way I see it Cybertronian civilization fell because of conflict of ideals and rebellion. Remember there is a massive kill off the Prime line that two survivors were only officially recognized.

    I can see where Quintessa is coming from. She had to clean everybody's mess. Mixing with races led to the fall of the old regime. Hence Lockdown noting Creators don't like that. She hired Lockdown to hunt down all the Knights and clean up the Autobot-Decepticon war that is mucking up the cosmos. Next thing she knows Cyberetron got sucked by a Space Bridge and was made worse. Which point where it all started Unicron aka Earth.
     
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  9. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    These are all great points.I wonder what was the point of the Allspark if the staff was the thing Quintessa used to give them life.Maybe there were many ways to do it just like with the hatchlings and the ones that get built..the Allspark was used at some point maybe it created the staff lol just speculation.
     
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  10. tonyformer

    tonyformer Well-Known Member

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    At first I thought Quintessa might have been a movie universe version of a mixed Solus Prime and Quintus Prime but the more I think of it, if she truely is a Prime, I think she is outright the movie version of Quintus Prime. Just now a female, hence the Quintessa the Prime of Life, the mad Goddes, the deceiver. Her Staff seems to be just like Quintus Primes (Ember Stone). So I don't think she had anything to do with the creation of the AllSpark. The AllSpark in the aligned Continuity was created by Solus herself.
     
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  11. BumblebeeFan71

    BumblebeeFan71 Loyal Starscream Follower

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    Eh, I'll take that explanation. Anything really to fill in the holes.
     
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  12. jmannrock

    jmannrock Failed Knight of Primus

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    Excellent ideas, all of them. But don't forget that Cybertron had a caste system. What started the war was somebody in the lowest section convincing people that the caste system was bs. And this is before Prime became Prime.

    And we take the whole "descendant of the primes" thing a little too literally.
    The Allspark is the heart of Primus. Transformers all come out of the Allspark and are relegated to their position/job on Cybertron. One bot was given the job of collecting data and while he was working he showed bravery and courage and other traits that were befitting of a Prime. The war commences and Orion Pax and Megatronus are friends who are torn apart by their separate ideas of how to abolish the politics of Cybertron. Being that Pax had the character traits that were needed and a war was starting that he could lead people through, he was upgraded to Optimus Prime, under Sentinel. And then the rest, as they say, is history.
    Shit goes down, the civil war became a war of attrition, Allspark is launched out of Primus into spaaace, Ark crashes on moon and so on.
    The only thing I don't agree with is the seekers. They weren't used to look for stars to convert to energon. They were the law enforcement on Cybertron.... The name Seeker is just given to anyone with a plane alt mode
     
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  13. UltraPrimus56

    UltraPrimus56 In the ruins of paradise

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    I don't know, and honestly, I'm kind of over the whole, "Optimus is a knight" thing. For one, it hasn't gone anywhere, and is ultimately needless in the grand scheme of things. Why can't Prime being the LEADER of the Autobots simply be enough? That's significantly bigger than him being this crusader of Cybertron, which just feels tacked on and nonsensical.

    I honestly hope that Optimus gets a new look in TF6; one that deviates away from the whole, "knight" aspect. I don't hate his new look or anything, but I feel as though an updated and modernized take on Prime's old design would suit him a lot more.
     
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  14. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    Everyone's a knight in this damn movie.
     
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  15. tonyformer

    tonyformer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I have to say I would rather they just went with the plot of OP being one of the first 13 and not knowing it over this whole he's a knight and created by a prime story
     
  16. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    The Staff was meant to drain Unicron's spark to revive Primus.

    The Allspark, the Matrix and the Staff are artifacts that I would call Relics much like in TF Prime. I wouldn't be surprised if Alpha Trion have something to do why these McGuffins end up on Earth.

    If we suppose Unicron's spark is like an ordinary Sparks made up of Energon the Staff will transfer Energon from Unicron to Primus. But if we take TF Prime continuity with RID bringing together Unicron and Primus' sparks is bad for both planets. Assuming Primus' is still on Cybertron. For all we know Primus spark was split into relics like the Allspark and Matrix. The Fallen saying the Allspark cannot be destroyed as it can only transform is a reference to energy.
     
  17. jmac703

    jmac703 Well-Known Member

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    This actually makes a lot of sense.

    Just to clarify though, what do you mean by "the Creators evolved into them"? Are you saying the Creators became Primes?
     
  18. MV95

    MV95 @marlinfan1995 Moderator News Staff

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    Dang my head hurts.


    And even though this is supposed to be a cinematic universe, they're still doing the one at a time thing. In regards to beings asked about the story idea for TF6, Lorenzo was pretty much like "Uhhhh, idk."

    Notice how Optimus' sword had the knight insignia on it when floating through space? It wasn't there in TF4. Why? Because they had no clue where they were going with the story yet. It was a problem then and it seems like it's still going to be a problem.
     
  19. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Rust Bucket

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    I like this.
     
  20. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Snip from my TLK review.



    Quintessa is a Prime herself and is called a goddess. Now the pieces are coming together!
    Speculation on my part.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Primes faces is what you'd think Quintesson faces would be. That is because in this universe the Creators evolved into the race of the Primes. That is why Sentinel Prime and Quintessa consider themselves gods. Their race built the Transformers.

    [​IMG]

    Creators hands are similar to the Primes.

    At one point the Creators were organic becoming more cybernetic to fully synthetic bodies. They are Gobots! Or like Gorlam Prime's Micromasters that started off as meatbags.

    Now we go to the parallels between the Fallen and Quintessa. Both are ancient Primes. Both have McGuffins that can destroy Humans/Earth that were stolen. Both are betrayed by groups they trust. For the Fallen the six other Primes on Earth. For Quintessa the 12 Knights of Cybertron who were her own guards and creations. They stole the Staff and likely Optimus Prime. Optimus Prime is both a Prime and a Knight. Quintessa is literally Optimus Prime's mom. And she can reprogram him into Nemesis Prime when he crashed on Cybertron.

    This adds another dimension why this conflict between ancient Transformers involving Primes. Sacrifice the Humans so Unicron can be destroyed and Cybertron saved or hold unto their ideals in protecting life. This paints a picture of the Fallen, Quintessa and perhaps Sentinel Prime as zealots. Who care about the Humans they are Spawns of Unicron. Better nip them at the bud before Unicron wakes up and turns them into his minions. Quintessa is bringing Cybertron to Earth's orbit to both destroy it and rebuild Cybertron.
     
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