Primal vs Primal

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TheDemonDzko, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. TheDemonDzko

    TheDemonDzko °-{[●□●]}-° {Beep. Boop.)

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    So, like everybody else in the forum. I have decided to jump on the astrotrain, and watch Beast Wars and Beast Machines (again), and each series had its own feel to it. However, the tone was obviously different in Machines, for that older crowd (or something?). But, the one thing that bugged me the entire time in Beast Machines, is Primal. It isn't that he is a bad character (sp?) by any means. However, as all fans notice. His personality changes because of... because.

    So, this being said. Munkey/Wingedmonkeytankthing Vs. Munkey.

    Who is the better Primal? (In your opinion)
     
  2. Orbital

    Orbital Well-Known Member

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    While I definitely had a hard time sitting through Beast Machines after episode 4 I still enjoyed Primal's story arc in it, it was probably the second best character development behind Cheetor, but ultimately I think his story and personality in Beast Wars was the best, especially when he became Transmetal.
     
  3. AMG

    AMG Old School

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    I enjoyed Beast Wars Primal a lot more. He was the better commander.
     
  4. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator Super Mod News Staff

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    Beast Wars Optimus Primal.

    In Beast Wars, we're introduced to the leader of a science team/exploratory team that ends up running in to the escaped Predacon fugitive named Megatron and decides to try and stop him - and ends up fighting to save all of existence from being wiped out. He went from "newbie" to "hardened veteran" before our eyes, and we got to see his journey as he experienced victory, defeat, gains and hard losses. We saw him lose his temper, we saw him do the right thing when the wrong thing was so much easier. We grew up with him, so to speak.

    In Beast Machines, we have the same character who meets a ball of light and suddenly goes from "conservative, mindful leader" to "rash, arrogant, stubborn leader". Where old Optimus Primal would have stepped back and thought out the situation with more clarity, Beast Machines Optimus Primal rushes forth FOR THE PLANTS!!11! or something along those lines. The worst case is when he decides to unleash the Plasma Energy Chamber because Megatron is going to unleash the key to Vector Sigma. That was beyond out of character for Optimus Primal (to sacrifice the lives of thousands to save the future?) and really was the tipping point for Bob Skir's destruction of an incredible cast of characters developed for years before he tainted them.

    Don't get me wrong - I loved Beast Machines, and thought it was a great show. But I have to forget everything I saw in Beast Wars to enjoy it.
     
  5. Necrophon

    Necrophon Speaker of Death TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think you said it best when you said BW is better when thought of as a stand alone series. I'd have to say that BW Primal was a much more likable character, my fave of the two series.
     
  6. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    BW Primal, he had depth and was seriously developed over the course of the series. BM Primal was a flat character who was mostly defined as a complaining zealot who forced his viewpoint on others.
     
  7. Bass X0

    Bass X0 King of Muay Thai

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    Yep. BM Primal became a religious nut. He was not that much different than Megatron in that respect who also forced his viewpoint onto others. Neither viewpoint was in the best interest for everyone.

    Beast Machines was akin to someone spending a week at bible camp and then coming home and demanding everything be changed to fit what they learned while they were away.
     
  8. UltraMagnus3786

    UltraMagnus3786 That's what it is

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    Just to play devil's advocate, BM primal was plagued by his mistakes and his guilt of allowing Megatron to unleash war on the entire planet of Cybertron. The stakes were much higher for BM Primal than they ever were for BW Primal, and it showed. Only toward the end where he sought balance of techno and organic did his character arc really take full shape as he had a purpose and realized he had been following a corrupted Vector Sigma. In this sense, his character is deeper than BW's Primal, and the ending of the series had greater final resolution for him in the end.

    But deep down I like BW Primal not for his character arc, but for his interactions with every other character in that series.
     
  9. ShiroPrime

    ShiroPrime blargh

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    I liked Primal when his command was akin to a SOLDIER, rather than a zealot.















    .
     
  10. DecepticonSpike

    DecepticonSpike Kimber/Stormer Fanboy

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    Pretty much how I feel about the character. Primal was a logical being in BW, while in BM he was more emotional. I huge step backwards when it comes to leadeship.
     
  11. OhSlag!

    OhSlag! Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with the high-lighted portion of what you said. The stakes were much higher in BW as Megatrons plans effected the future existance of autobots, maximals and predacons. While in BM only the current time and planet of cybertron were to be effected. Also, shown by the arrival of Botanica, many Maximals and Predacons may have been off planet when the virus attacked. Meaning they would have been OK if his plan went through.
     
  12. Pride21

    Pride21 Honor Wisdom Virtue

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    Have to go with Kickback on this. Though as a story BM was not terribly bad it had it's moments. For me it just could not measure up to BW.
     
  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Faith is what blinded Optimus Primal in BM. That's the whole point of the character in the first half. I really like that they tried this misguided angle on Optimus. On anyone else it'd be okay, but on Optimus, who's practically the main character whom everyone looks up to, it really made for a reat character plot. I love how it goes from "I believe the Oracle has guided me" to "The Oracle is right all the time! Never question it!" which showed a unique weakness in the character. Of course this led to him nearly destroying Cybertron, an angle which has never been explored on Optimus before or since.

    Although I think what really bothered people was his demeanor. He was a lot more soft in his speech usually, and less gung-ho rah-rah, which really he was growing out of by Beast Wars S3. I believe this was to show he was getting older, as they all did. This was also what sparked Cheetor's mutiny, since out of all of them he was the only one who didn't change. He stayed on the same path he was on in BW.

    I prefer BW Optimus Primal for sure, but I find nothing wrong with BM Primal. He, like everyone in BM, was the same person as before, but his character was influenced by his circumstances. That's the whole point of the show. Everyone is pushed to their limits.
     
  14. UltraMagnus3786

    UltraMagnus3786 That's what it is

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    Yeah, I guess that argument could go either way. I was thinking that although BW Megatron's plans were more grand in that they affected multiple generations of Cybertronians, I felt that moment was resolved quickly with Primal taking Optimus's spark into his own body. Megatron never came that close to winning again throughout the rest of the series. Whereas in BM, Megatron had succeeded in mass genocide and in capturing all the sparks. The impending sense of doom seemed greater throughout BM, and Primal blamed himself for it, so the burden/stakes were greater for Primal in BM than BW.
     
  15. rattimus prime

    rattimus prime Scout Class Prime

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    The Oracle was Optimus's Crutch in Beast Machines, it guided him to what he thought was the right course of action. but along the way he developed a blind faith in it which the others clearly didn't share. BW primal could deal with the situations at hand because he knew what was going on, but in beast machines he had no clue about the events before hand as he and the rest of the Maximal had their memories wiped, and on a planet where they where being hunted down by his arch enemy who had control over a massive drone army, you know what if a magical source of knowledge told me to do something i would do it at that point.
     
  16. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    This says my opinion better than I could have voiced it. Wars Primal was a commander who grew into a good successor for Optimus Prime himself. Machines Primal was a religious nut who was blind.

    Beast Machines is a series that would have been amazing if it had nothing to do with Transformers. As a Transformers series it just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

    But I will never pass up the chance to point out that Cheetor was done PERFECTLY in Machines. All the other characters had drastic and just plain bad character shifts. But Cheetor stayed the same and continued his growth into a very skilled leader.
     
  17. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    BM Primal annoys me, I don't like hippies.


    I'm for BW Primal
     
  18. Jetbolt

    Jetbolt Maximal Air Commander

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    I prefer BW Optimus Primal the most, but I really dont hate the BM version. I think BM Optimus could had been better if he had kept his BW mental style.
     
  19. KnightHawkke

    KnightHawkke A Man, Who Does Not Exist. TFW2005 Supporter

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    For toy, I have to say BW Primal, it was very well engineered and looked good, especially after the updates to smooth things out in the 10th aniv. release.

    For character TM2 Primal all the way, taking Primal and giving him that bit of.. seasoning from his temporary fusion with Primes' spark made a good character even better!
     

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