Primacron's Assistant

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TillAllROne, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. TillAllROne

    TillAllROne Primacron's Assitant

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    I'm starting this thread because this character appeared in G1 Season 3: Call of The Primitives. it was very intriguing to discover that out of his destroyed body emerged the Autobot Matrix of Leadership (AMOL) . I started putting together clues as to what happened between Season 2 and the 1986 Movie regarding the AMOL. I'm going to do my best to bridge the gap. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  2. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    Good luck
     
  3. DecepticonSpike

    DecepticonSpike Kimber/Stormer Fanboy

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    In reality, the idea of the Matrix of Leadership didn't exist until the movie was written. The closest thing we had at the time was the Creation Matrix in the Marvel comics. Show wise, as for where the Matrix was the entire time, Prime had it, as seen in the BW episode "Optimal Situation".
     
  4. Protoman

    Protoman The Legendary One Veteran

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    [​IMG]

    "Universe of Primacron" A gem of the old online fandoms days of ATT. Give it a read, it might be fan made but it makes you really think.
     
  5. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    That actually Prime's spark container, not the Matrix..
     
  6. DecepticonSpike

    DecepticonSpike Kimber/Stormer Fanboy

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    Is that story online?

    Forgot about that.
     
  7. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    Don't go there!

    :p 
     
  8. TwilightNero

    TwilightNero Maximal

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    That was an error by the animators who thought the Matrix was the spark container.
     
  9. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

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    I've read that. But that still doesn't change that they drew the matrix.
     
  10. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    I quote TFWIKI:
    It wasn't an error at all, the writers used the Matrix as a reference for the spark chamber of Prime.
    They didn't draw the Matrix. They drew something similar in appearance to the Matrix but visibly different. Prime's spark container doesn't have finger holes for instance. It contains a spark, not a crystal. And even if it did look like the Matrix, the original intent of the writers should matter more than what essentially would amount to either a homage or animation error.
     
  11. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I dont see why you think the Matrix emerged from the body of the Assistant.

    Theres no way of knowing if this is the Assistant or an other of Primacrons creations
    [​IMG]

    Furthermore, there seems to be more then 1 body there on the ground and you cant tell from where the thing that looks like the matrix is coming from.
    [​IMG]
    That not exactly true.

    There were plans to introduce the matrix early in season 2.

    Thats actually debatable.

    too late
    If any thing the error is on the writing staff not the animators.
    Thats the first peace of evidence thats almost 100% conclusive.

    writer/creator intent should never come into play in these maters.
     
  12. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    If anything it should always come into play.
     
  13. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I dont see any logical reason it should.

    Writer/Creastor intent pretty much equals the word of God.

    And its not like we can ask God questions about his/her intent when life trows us a curve ball.
     
  14. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Yeah, accept when we already have their intentions like I posted in this thread. Even if it's not as clear upon an episodes or comics release, time usually grants us the background information to explain events like that with Prime's spark in BW. We know the intentions because we have the words of the writers. By all means use fanon when there's no authorial intent given but don't deny or reject it once it's presented. The original intent is far better than making shit up. It helps us understand things better and in a different light.

    For instance, I didn't know until last week that the Insecticons were never intended to become new troops for Galvatron. And considering they're mentioned by name in the show's scripts in season 3 it's likely that their continued presence on the planet Junk and on Charr isn't at fault but the movie's Unicron scene was. Authorial intent can often bridge gaps and fill in plotholes.

    Original intent > fan canon

    At least when it comes to an honest discussion about what's what. By all means make up personal canon for your own use; we all do it.
     
  15. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    The problem with that thinking, at least not in this case, is that no one is making anything up.Their just going with what was seen and what even the vague dialog suggest.

    Writer intent just doesnt always make it to trhe finisher product, further more some times its out right over written in the on going story, just look at the whole 'chosen one" concept for ewvidence of that.If we were to go with writer intent there we would have to disregard episode The return of Optimus Prime.

    Bottom line, if its not universally applicable its not a good way to judge whats in continuity.
    Thats just it, what you found out last week, as you described it, isint exactly on point.

    Its true, originally Insecticons were never intended to get upgrades, but they changed their minds when they created the kill list.

    So even if it wasnt intended at first, it was intended later in the films production.

    And thats the problem with accepting creator intent, the creating process is long and involved, going trew many stages with different ideas being added all the time..What wasnt intended at stage 1 may have been the intent by the time it went into actual production.

    The real problem with their continued presence is that different parts of the film and season 3 were animated/produced out of sequence and by different teams that had no communication with each other

    I repeat,if its not universally applicable its not a good way to judge whats in continuity
     
  16. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    The point is that when things like the matrix in BW show up, the authors can shed light on what is actually being conveyed if it is in fact confusing. That as such can help us better determine which parts to and not to include in the overall correct canon. If a writer came around tomorrow giving a detailed explanation of the Contructicons' origin and existence to better cope with their perceived conflicting stories, I'd take that over randomly trying to reconcile the irreconcilable. And again with the Insecticons, though we clearly see them on screen being transformed, the film itself contradicts this and the third season does, and if the authors' own words explain an intended canon that quite the opposite rejects them dying and being rebuilt, that should hold priority. Merely being on screen should not hold priority in canon; if so half the Autobots and Decepticons conveniently have the insignias of their enemies every now and then. Rather the people that actually wrote and scripted the story have better insight than animators that routinely make mistakes, even in higher productions like the film. I certainly don't think Reflector should have been red in the Battle of Autobot City.
     
  17. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Sorry but I dont think that works.

    If author/creator intent can not be used to rectify every situation or even in other cxases then theres no reason why it should be used here to correct canon.

    Their origin isint actually irreconcilable.The evidence has been around proving that for some time.

    True animation errors are different.

    The Insecticons being seen after their deaths is not an animation error.Its a production error.
     
  18. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Authorial intent isn't needed to explain every situation to begin with. But the words of those that made it are better than fanon, waiting for a retcon, or ignoring things. Things like the Insecticons, Prime's spark, these are things that kind of matter in in-universe discussions about said stories. To avoid unnecessary confusion the writer's intentions help clear up what is actually going on as opposed to relying on inaccurate or misleading scenes. So even if it doesn't matter for everything, for the scene with Prime's Matrix-like spark, it can still matter for confused fans.

    Evidence?

    In G1 it's pretty close.

    When they're called for in the script by name, I don't think that can be as easily written off regardless of what you want to call it. You'd have a point if you mentioned the coneheads being killed by Unicron when they show up repeatedly in I believe the scripts in Season 3.
     
  19. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    And again, this isint a case of useing fanon.

    Truth be told, theres really no logical reason to question what we saw.

    This is only an issue because of the authors comments about his intent.

    Its in the pre-production bible.

    It was never intended that they get an origin in "heavy metal war".

    It was the fans that misinterpretation one vague line by Megatron.

    He said they "built" them but "built" is not always synonymous with newly created.

    The fans took that vague line, added it with the fact that they were new characters for us, and assumed that Megatron created then as new life.

    But other then the one vague line, theres nothing in the episode that suggest they were new life.
     
  20. Protoman

    Protoman The Legendary One Veteran

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    All of this is covered in the Kissplay Radio Dramas. Pretty much the Kissplay manga tobe along with the radio dramas tried to make sense of the continuity and well......... also a recent Japanese source book flat out says he was/is the Oracle.
     

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