Plot holes, lack the knowledge of the mythos, or just imagination?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Tyrannosaur, Sep 1, 2009.

  1. Tyrannosaur

    Tyrannosaur 100% Sarcastic Saurian

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    It seems that these plot holes were pointed out by people who have no knowledge of Transformers and the mythos it developed. Hell, most of these theories just take a little imagination.

    Someone posted a list of all these plot holes and I have solved them. All these were taken from the top ten burning questions list on Yahoo. Burning Questions: The 10 Most Confusing Things in 'Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'

    1. In "Transformers," there was this giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles -- excuse me, Mission City -- that was witnessed by thousands of people at the very least. But somehow the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor? How did they do it? Pay off everyone who was there and quickly fix millions of dollars in damage? Also, didn't Keller (Jon Voight) go on TV and tell everyone we were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to our own"? How did they spin that?

    It is possible that the government covered this all up. No Keller was not on TV either. They dismissed the whole Mission City battle in the novel as an entire military strategy gone awry or something along that line. It's like Area 51. They covered that all up but people still know about it.

    2. There are two pieces of the Allspark cube left: the military has one under lock and key, and Sam discovers another. The Decepticons steal one and bring Megatron back to life. But when Sam (Shia LaBeouf) wants to bring back Optimus, he has to find the Matrix of Leadership on the other side of the globe. Why not use the other piece? Mikaela (Megan Fox) has it in her backpack the whole time. It brought his kitchen appliances to life, why can't it do the same for Optimus?


    When a Prime dies, they stay dead. Only something as powerful as the Matrix could bring him back to life, plus they needed someone with information to locate the harvester.

    3. Speaking of Megatron's rebirth, when the Decepticons venture deep into the ocean to revive him, the Navy crew tracking them reads five contacts. When they get down there, they tear apart one of the robots for parts to rebuild Megatron. Then as they rise to the surface, the same Navy guys say they spot six contacts. The little "Doctor" robot popped out down there, but he's about a third of the size of a person. Would he have shown up on sonar?

    I don't even see how this would interfere with the plot. The Doctor was concealed inside Ravage the entire time. It's possible they picked up him on sonar.

    4. That reminds me: even if I were to forgive the Doctor's German accent -- and director Michael Bay is asking me to forgive a lot of ridiculous accents -- why would a robot need glasses? He has little lenses that flip in front of his mechanical eyes. Couldn't he just get his eyes adjusted? You'd think with all the laser guns, someone could perform a Lasik procedure.

    Who loses sleep over something like this? Maybe The Doctor installed them himself but he ever damaged his optics he would have a backup pair of "glasses" to help him see better. Having those installed in his eyes means that if his eyes go then so do the glasses.

    5. Apparently, Transformers can look like people now. How? And how is it that even though the robo-girl (Isabel Lucas) is made of metal, she can still straddle Sam without crushing him. And if Bumblebee knows something's wrong with her, why does he spit antifreeze at her instead of telling Sam? Yes, his voicebox is broken, but wasn't it fixed at the end of the last movie?

    If you read the prequel comic series called "Alliance" Bumblebee damaged his voice box again. Alice is a pretender, she is made up of lightweight material (Which is why she was crushed so easily by the car) to match the form she scanned. Bumblebee couldn't pick up her signature because she was concealing it. She never knew Sam's Camaro was Bumblebee either from what I could tell.

    6. The Fallen is the last of the Primes, since they all sacrificed themselves to stop him from destroying the sun. But then he says that Optimus is a descendant of the Primes. First, Transformers have kids? And second, how could he descend from them if they were all dead? And if the Fallen could only be destroyed by a Prime, why didn't the originals just gang up on him back in the day? And what makes Optimus so special, anyway? Megatron beat him earlier, but all it takes is a few spare parts from creaky old Jetfire for him to take out the Fallen?

    Transformers build protoforms then use some of their spark to give life to a new Transformer. Prime is a descendant so he isn't completely as powerful as a true Prime. Megatron is Prime's brother infact and he killed Prime WITH A COWARDLY STAB FROM BEHIND. The Fallen was the strongest Prime of all and they did gang up on him and still couldn't beat him. Jetfire is an ancient transformer who is incredibly powerful which helped Prime defeat The Fallen.

    The whole thing with Megatron and the Fallen is like someone with a body guard. The Fallen didn't want to take the risk of getting killed (maybe Prime is just that strong) so he sent Megatron to do the dirty work.

    7. Sam, Mikaela, and Simmons (John Turturro) go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. to find Jetfire. Then they walk out the back onto a wide open field with old planes and mountains in the distance. When did the National Mall start to look so much like to Tucson, AZ (where they really filmed that scene)?

    Not really a plot hole but yes it's a geographical error.

    8. The geography is just as bad when they go to Egypt. The stone city of Petra in Jordan is over 250 miles away, over mountainous terrain, with few paved roads and the Israeli border between them, so how can they drive from one to the other in a couple of hours. And the Pyramids are said to be shooting distance from the Mediterranean, but they are actually well over 80 miles inland. Even if the Navy ship had a secret rail gun, and even if the captain would take an order to fire from a former agent of a government branch that no longer exists (over a walkie-talkie that inexplicably starts working again), how could it hit a moving target from that distance?

    Another geographical error.

    9. Sam briefly dies and goes to Robot Heaven. Robot Heaven?!?!

    Ok, Sam absorbed the power of the Allspark, what did you expect? For him just to die right there? The Primes needed to contact Sam and the Allspark was the link between them, which Sam absorbed. The Primes are ancient beings with many powers, why are you surprised in the first place? Ever here of "Technology beyong our understanding"? Is it also hard to understand this movie is SCIENCE FICTION?

    10. Where does Sam's bandage come from? What about his extra sock? Why does Sam's roommate not contribute anything at all?
    What was the Fallen doing for those thousands of years Megatron was frozen in ice?
    How does one satellite receive transmissions from everywhere on the planet?
    Why does Wheelie hump Mikaela's leg?
    Why do we have to see John Turturro's thong?
    Why are robots who join together to become Devastator also seen fighting the Army at the same time?
    Why does the government want only our military fighting Decepticons when our weapons seem unable to make so much as a dent on any of them?
    Why did the ancient Egyptians build a pyramid around the sun-destroying machines instead of just breaking it?
    Why is the Matrix of Leadership bigger in the Fallen's hand than in Sam's?
    How do Mikaela's pants stay so clean?


    - Who knows? Maybe Mikeala had an extra one in her purse?
    - He probably took off his shoe but they cut the scene for time constraints. Alot scenes were cut.
    - He did contribute a little bit to the film. He knew exactly where to find information about the Decepticons (Agent Simmons)
    - Waiting for the right moment to strike?
    - Soundwave manipulated the Satellite to his advantage. He's an alien robot specialized in this field after all.
    - Humor? People have different tastes in comedy, just because you don't find it funny doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. People were laughing in my theater.
    - Read the above statement.
    - There are more than one variation of constructicon. They're backup limbs. If Devastator loses an arm or a leg there is someone nearby who can fill that place him. The Constructicons are army builders.
    - This is our government after all. Some of our weaponry does do quite a bit of damage to Cybertronian metal.
    - They didn't have the neccessary materials to destroy it. They thought it was something from their gods. It's cybertronian and back then it's impossible to destroy.
    - The same reason why the glasses looked bigger in Optimus' hand in the first movie, the audience can see it better.
    - It's not like she rolled around in dirt. She wasn't completely clean either if you didn't notice.

    All it takes is a little imagination to make your theories accurate. It's a science fiction movie after all, anything can happen.
     
  2. lostnfound

    lostnfound Contructiconvict

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    Talk about nitpciking.. Not only that, but some of the complaints are just stupid and relatively untrue. Didn't Sam take off his shoe and put the matrixy sand in his sock that was on his foot?
     
  3. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    a Lot of your answers to the plot holes can only be understood from fans. People that don't know transformers, like the general audience, are truly in the dark.

    If a film lacks some storytelling, or character development, then it becomes a bit difficult or confusing to follow. I'd prefer that instead of knowing the why's to all these plot holes as a fan, to actually see it on the screen.
    A clear example can be how sam is unable to be crushed by ALice's weight. I don't think it wouldn't be such a big deal to get a little familiar with who or what a pretender is, rather than just coming out of nowhere, maybe just 2 minutes during storytelling.

    Who are the decepticons, what are there names? Personalities? You know, simple things like this, that can satisfy in completing a story, I don't think it's too much to ask.
    I'm sure Bay and Co. were rushing to get the film done, so there probably wasn't enough emphasiz in getting the little details to complete the story puzzle, we'll see if this changes in T.F.:3 :thumb 
     
  4. Solrac333

    Solrac333 G1 got it right!

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    Actually, there is an Air and Space musem annex near Dulles airport in Virginia. That was not the one in DC.
     
  5. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

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    The point is that the movie showed have answered these questions. You can explain away just about anything after the fact but the movie should have done it
     
  6. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    Maybe it should've explained some things, but Scalpel's glasses and Alice's weight are just nitpicking of the highest order.
     
  7. JetRaid

    JetRaid Jhet Rheyd

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    'Kay.
     
  8. Trell

    Trell Paladin

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    The Geographical Errors

    I'd say, in a movie where LA is actually named Mission City, geography no longer matters in a SCIENCE FICTION movie.
     
  9. SharkyMcShark

    SharkyMcShark Hi. I'm better than you

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    Generally all the questions can be put down to a lack of exposition in the movie - the questions are answered in the general mythos but it's unreasonable to expect the average discerning moviegoer (who would be bothered by things like this) to have read all the prequel material/adaptations. For example,

    1. The comic adaptation has Sam watching TV during him packing for college (before he calls Mikaela), where there is a news story that goes to explaining away the battle as protoytpe defence industry robots gone haywire (a scene which wasn't in the movie)


    2. Two explanations - the first being that Prime was dead dead, as opposed to in stasis like Megatron or Jetfire (although in the comics he goes into stasis at this point as opposed to dying). The second is that Sam couldn't get to Prime after the battle - he was a fugitive and the military were considering giving him over to the Decepticons.


    3. Seemed like an error at the time. Not relevant to the plot, and the only real explanation that could plausibly be submitted is that the Autobots shared non combat technology, including being able to boost sonar strength to pick up something as small as the Doctor. Which is tenuous at best, but is at least slightly plausible. Again though this is hardly a plot point.


    4. A stupid point that has nothing to do with the plot - picking holes in the robot aesthetic isn't a valid objective reason to criticise the movie (although obviously this could be a subjective reason to not like it). Possibly they were to shield his eyes from all the nasty bloody stuff associated with cutting into someone with power tools? Why not ask why all the other robots have battle masks?


    5. Alice scanned an animatronic maid from an Alice in Wonderland theme park ride - another point that receives a panel in the comic but not in the movie (it happened off camera - it was what Leo was coming into the room to tell Sam about his bed buddy Alice just before she went all Terminator). Regarding her Decepticon 'signature', there are numerous examples in both the comics and the movies themselves of Transformers having to look for eachother as opposed to just honing in on a signal. For instance, Bumblebee and Barricade at the scrapyard, where BB was within sight of Barricade yet Barricade didn't see him. While Ratchet makes reference to Decepticon signals in the first movie, his secondary role in the team does appear to be tracker (hell, his repaint is called 'Desert Tracker').


    6. For posterity

    Yes. See the first post for a fantastic explanation of this process.

    Clearly as soon as my parents pass on I'll cease to exist too [/sarcasm]. Because you know, clearly they couldn't have created a new generation before their death.

    He had a vast army - hell this was shown during a flashback sequence. The first movie deomonstrated that being a Prime doesn't equate to being an unstoppable supersoldier by default, the only reason the Fallen was powerful was because he'd been leaching suns for himself alone.

    Again, being a Prime doesn't make you a supersoldier.


    7. I never really understood the massive fuss about this. Yes if you're being strictly true to real life it's an error. Of course I don't remember too many complaints that Mission City was completely made up, but I'm sure that won't stop people whining.


    8. See above.


    9. Exactly what the first post said. Sam was the vessel of the Allspark. A similar scene happened at the end of the seventh Harry Potter novel and no one whined about that.


    10. Christ...

    Magicland. Who cares. (Yes, it was an editting error).

    Half the characters in both movies don't contribute anything key to the plot. He was funny though. Which was kind of the point when you think about it.

    In a sarcophagus that was unsealed at the death of the last Prime. Something that the comics explained but wasn't explained in the movie (again).

    The same way a cement mixer transforms into a robot and a gun platform.

    Because she's fucking hot. I would.

    In fairness I never got the point of that scene. Ostensibly because it was intended to be funny.

    There weren't the robots that formed devastator, although some of them shared alternate modes.

    Wow, for real? Did these people even watch the movies?

    Don't know in fairness. Probably because they didn't want it to expode in their faces if they fucked with it.

    Think of it like a penis

    Because you touch yourself at night.
     
  10. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Obi-Wan Kenobi disappeared and left a pile of clothes.
    The Event Horizon went to Hell, then came back again. hen went back.
    And Dave Bowman disappeared with the aid of a giant black monolith.
    It's a sfi-fi movie. Get the hell out more.

    ...Actually, that covers a lot of those questions.
     
  11. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Oxymoron?
     
  12. eisen

    eisen "CUT ME SOME SLACKS!"

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    some people need to slow down when they type.
     
  13. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    A movie needs to tell a cohesive story that gives the audience enough information to suspend disbelief enough to enjoy and understand what's going on.

    The first one... does... to a degree. The second? Not so much. Therein lies the problem.

    Being a "fan" or "lacking imagination" is clutching at straws at best and at worst completely wrong.
     
  14. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    But... people aren't allowed to like/dislike the movie without some sort of deficiency!
     
  15. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    Sorry, my bad, apologies.
     
  16. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Not everyone who watches sc-fi stays indoors doing so all the time.
     
  17. PorkChopKB

    PorkChopKB Bay Harbor Butcher

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    the whole pyramid thing... didn't they say that transformers built the pyramid to hide the sun blower upper? :lol 
     
  18. neoprimus01

    neoprimus01 Jackpot

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  19. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Jetfire was asleep. not dead.
     
  20. Spoon

    Spoon Banned

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    Damn.

    I couldn't find a 'SHOCKED!' emoticon.
     

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