Made-up answers, guesswork and complex tripartate betrayal plots that only exist in the minds of certain posters aside... Sentinel Prime had given up leadership of the Autobots to Optimus before the war even began because he was younger, stronger, and because he genuinely believed that his own time was done, and that Optimus could defeat Megatron and bring peace to the planet. Sentinel was a GOOD BOT when he did this. He had no intentions of betrayal. It was only millennia later, after Optimus had failed to live up to his hopes, that Sentinel made the alliance with Megatron out of desperation because of the worsening war. He was not leader at the time, and could not have done what you suggest. Defiance. Because the harvesters power the cube, so it is drawn to its power source. After the seeming destruction of the Ark and Sentinel's apparent death. No, Soundwave came to Earth in the 60s and was responsible for initiating the human alliances seen in DOTM (this is not something the comics made up - in the film itself, Megatron's CALLS them "Soundwave's human collaborators", and thanks Soundwave for finding the Ark on the Moon). But only he and his crew knew about it, and were off-planet and out of contact with all the other Decepticons from the 70s through to after the first movie. The Decepticons didn't KNOW about their human allies until after ROTF, when Soundwave and Megatron could finally meet and speak once more, thus setting into motion the events of DOTM.
He gave up leadership before the war began? Seriously? Why? If there was no war and nothing to lead his peaceful world to, why take a back seat during a time of peace? And why fight with Megatron if they were at war or do you mean Sentinel took a step back before the big war started? Either way, seems a bit weird considering Sentinel was still a kick ass fighter and still had the gravity to get Cybertron to go his way. Why didn’t he speak with Optimus or the Autobots about a solution rather than betrayal? The original 13 harvested uninhabited stars before, so why couldn’t they? I mean, they didn’t have to come to earth. Rather than trying to use his pull to get both sides to sit down and talk, he ups and betrays them all? With the harvester out of commission, how would it even know where to find the harvester? The harvester was dead without the matrix powering it. Besides, the harvester and the Allspark weren’t exactly close to one another. The Harvester on Earth couldn’t have been the only one could it? Other suns were harvested in the past, right? How do we know there weren’t others elsewhere? Why didn’t the fallen have Megatron and his crew construct one closer to Cybertron, one that didn’t require the Matrix to power it up? Is this a retcon? The second movie made it look like Soundwave had just arrived with all the other new Decepticons. Why didn’t he contact Megatron during the first movie when Megatron used TV to communicate with the world when looking for Sam. He had to have known Soundwave was up there or better yet, Soundwave should have known that Megatron was down below looking for the Allspark.
This would also explain (besides just his personality) why Starscream is such a bitch in front of Megatron. He's trying to make up for his error in shooting Sentinel's ship, and he knows that Megs is still mad about it and is therefore on the brink of killing SS at any moment.
Because as I said, he believed his time was done, and that it was the responsibility of the younger generation to lead the planet in the new era of peace he had helped usher in. See, the planet had been at war previously, over lack of energy followed by the deaths of the Primes and the passing of the AllSpark into the realm of legend - a time of war Sentinel ended when he rediscovered the AllSpark beneath the planet's surface and re-energized it. Both Optimus and Megatron were his pupils at the time, and he appointed them joint leaders in the new age of unification (the idea of them being joint leaders goes right back to them being "brothers" and joint rulers from the first movie's pre-production and prequel material). But then Megatron fell under the sway of the Fallen, established the Decepticons, and began the war. Because he considered Optimus to be part of the problem. As Sentinel says in the film, Optimus's problem was that he could "never make the hard decisions" - Optimus was too soft to take the decisive actions that would take the Decepticons out and win the war, so in the name of saving Cybertron from further destruction, Sentinel was forced to side with the 'bot who could. And the AllSpark is a cosmic woo-woo nonsense magic box that really doesn't need to operate on such a simple physical level. Saying it was "preternaturally" drawn to the harvester, if you must. It's all space-magic guff. Evidently the Primes disassembled each harvester on the planets they visited after they were done there. Wouldn't be overly smart to leave advanced tech like that lying around. The Fallen tried to do this once in the past, creating a fake Matrix to turn it on, and it exploded. So, no, that wasn't going to work. Yes, of course it's a retcon, as is nearly everything else in the film. But there's plenty of room to fit it in - when we first see Soundwave in ROTF, he's already in orbit around the planet with no indication of when or where he came from. Further, the ROTF prequel comic "Alliance" has him arriving in Earth's solar system after the first movie, having been off in some unknown place for unspecified reasons. The idea that he had been working his own scheme had been in place in the comics for a while before DOTM came along and by happy coincidence allowed these things to be tied together. Soundwave wasn't in Earthspace during the events of the first movie. He was elsewhere in the galaxy, reporting to The Fallen on his activities on Earth, then returned in time for ROTF. Y'know, it's really easy to sit and poo-poo all of this when you haven't read the comics and are just having them summarized back at you, but if people would actually take the time to go out there and look at this stuff, they'd find that other writers HAVE stepped up to fill in the holes in official media. John Barber in particularly worked DAMN hard in the Dark of the Moon tie-in comics to comb through all the other comics, novels and other sources, find all the continuity conflicts and plot holes he could, and FIX THEM. That he also managed to produced some of the best movieverse comics in the process was something of a miracle. Try reading this.
Okay, so all of this came from comics and books? Books never equaled books for me as they never really see eye to eye. Had the movie connected all the dots as the book/comics did, I wouldn't have the doubts I have now.
Comics, novels and games aren't really film canon. Sure same continuity family but not film canon. Bay doesn't really care about these extra materials and does his own thing. Orci, Kurtzman and Kruger aren't restricted by these other media writers. Heck they are tossed draft scripts that are different from the final product. Hence discrepancies like Jetfire, the Fallen, Sentinel Prime leaving Cybertron.
I think The Twins were deployed on a secret mission offscreen, and when Sentinel ordered the Autobots exile, they said "$#@% you!" and decided to stay. They have no idea Chicago ever occured.
*throws up hands* Yes, it's from the comics. No, the film creators didn't take the comics into account, because they were written AFTER THE FACT with the SPECIFIC PURPOSE of filling in the plot holes in the films and connecting the dots where the film creators did not bother to - and they do so with MASSIVE SUCCESS. Like in a bunch other major sci-fi franchises (rhymes with "Shmar Shmores"). I'll go with what official "secondary canon" sources which deliberately set out to resolve the very problems people are asking say about before I just *make up* an answer.
i myself consider the comics and novels canon to the films, now that theres no way to tie them with the adaptations
Prime's narration to start the first movie seems to suggest the war started over control of the all-spark. Now what if once the all-spark is gone, THEN Megatron and Sentinel make their alliance. Sentinel leaves but is shot down. Since Starscream didn't know we can assume no one knew for fear of their being a leak. It wouldn't make sense for Megs to shoot him down, because then if you don't, it skips the need to find the all-spark, or find the matrix to start the sunharvester. As Megatron said they "redevous" on Earth and return and rebuild Cybertron. With the Arc shot down that plan is out the window. Then Megatron sets out to find the all-spark under the orders of the Fallen. Megatron now needs the Fallen and the Fallen needs Megatron, because their is no matrix which has already been hidden by the Primes. You can make the argument that the Fallen knows that finding the all-spark may lead to the matrix. His goal is destroying Earth but that is a side plot. Megatron simply wants the all-spark to take back Cybertron. Once it is destroyed then Sam is the key to finding the energon source which is really the matrix to turn on the harvestor. Once Prime destroys the sunharvester then Megatron needs to go on a mission to find the arc. He may know that it crashed on the moon all along but he couldn't do anything about it because the matrix is the only thing that can repower a Tansformer's spark. Once Prime has the matrix then they can set forth the events of DOTM.
When did he say that? Starscream never took his rank. The Fallen did. He was talking to Starscream about the Fallen. Not the rest of the line from the movie the rest of my paragraph. You only read the first sentence in the paragraph. Here it is again. Wheelie would like to have a few words with you. First off, Wheelie introduced himself as a Scrap Drone so Drones do have names. Also Wheelie knew about it and he's neither an original transformer or a Seeker. Also there aren't an original thirteen, this isn't the comics, there were only seven. Are you forgetting that Wheelie is a Decepticon and he was complaining about the other Decepticons not letting him in on their plans which factored into his decision to switch sides. "looking for something. I don't know what, nobody tells me nothing." = Seekers are Decepticons. So basically you're attempts on covering up plot holes here have only opened up more plot holes all revolving around Wheelie. I never knew such a small character could be a walking plot hole.
Briefly after. Look, Decepticon's ranks go [vaguely] like this: Chancellor - The Fallen. General - Megatron. Colonel - Starscream. With Megatron dead, Starscream took his place as the leader of the Decepticon's troops, thus why Megatron was pissed. It's not that only a Prime can kill a Prime, it's that only a Prime can kill THE FALLEN, different matters entirely, The Fallen is not just "one common Prime", he's a GOD [and The Fallen one, the Fallen Prime, him being weak only to a Prime makes lots of sense], that's why no one can kill him except a Prime: He's a freaking GOD. Comparing vaguely to Greek Mythology, The Fallen is a God, Optimus is a Demi-Gods, and Demi-Gods could die through an Earthly way [while Gods couldn't]. He probably came up with the name on the spot. Correction: He knew about the SEEKERS EXISTENCE [which lots of people did, they are normal lore], but he didn't know they were on EARTH, he discovered that when he saw the pictures and indentified them. And there are Thirteen, seven of them are Primes. You are jumping at conclusions far too much: He says "nobody", that doesn't mean "DECEPTICONS", that means nobody [both Autobots and 'Cons] never told him much about them. Secondly, he might refer to "Decepticons never telling about the Autobot lore to him". You are simply failing to understand every single explanation because for the more I explain, you'll misunderstand every single sentence uttered by Wheelie and take it as an absolute proof that a plothole exists.
No it's really just that only a Prime can kill a Prime. The Fallen himself was a Prime and all the other Primes were dead except for Optimus. There's no God or Demi-god story line going on here they're just really powerful Transformers. And seriously if anyone should be considered a God here it's Megatron. The guy was brought back from the dead after absorbing the power of the AllSpark itself. He saw pictures of the Earth modes they had taken. Non of them were in robot mode. Now it hard enough trying to figure out how he even knew they were transformers and not just Earth vehicles but obviously he must of known what their Earth were to be able to know they were seekers. Plus he even said he that they've been here looking for something so he says that he knew they were on Earth. Autobots may not of known about the Seekers being on Earth but the Decepticons have known about them all along. There are not thirteen, the movies never mentioned anything about there being thirteen so they don't exist. The Thirteen comes from the comics and they are all Primes. That's not jumping at conclusions. He's a Decepticon! What you think Autobots and Decepticons have nice pleasant chats on the weekends? Of he means Decepticons! In case you haven't noticed Wheelie isn't all that bright so using something like grammar to try and understand what he's saying isn't the best idea. You gotta dumb down to his level where "nobody" actually means "the other Decepticons." Seriously why do you expect a character that stupid to use proper grammar? Might? What might, he clearly said they've been looking for something but they won't tell me what. He's a Decepticon character talking about how he's mistreated by the other Decepticons. There's no might, maybe, or possibly about it. That's pretty obvious in his dialog and even confirmed in his biography. There's no mistaking what he was talking about, Decepticons. He didn't have to say it, we knew he was talking about them because that's what he is. How can you possibly think that a Decepticon who barely knows anything about his own race would know anything about the Autobots? Yeah he's suppose to be a spy so he may of learned some things about the Autobots that way but he's not a very good spy as he was caught and beat up by a human. Besides the reason they were getting the information from Wheelie in the first place was because he's a Decepticon. Skids and Mudflap couldn't read the symbols and didn't know anything about the seekers. Wheelie couldn't read it either but he lead them to someone who could. There's no surprise what so ever that Jetfire was going to turn out to be another Decepticon. Actually no, I understand Wheelie perfectly. It's you I don't understand. All your explanations have revolved around Wheelie but ever though they cover up other plot holes that have nothing to do with Wheelie your digging up new plot holes around Wheelie in order to cover them. If no one knows about the Seekers being on Earth Wheelie shouldn't even know about them. But there wasn't even anything in the movie saying that no one knew about them, you said that. And of course now you're saying everyone knows about them to explain how Wheelie knows about them even though you previous said no one knew about them.
Defiance is the only oen to mention the 13 primes but it was retconned in tales of the fallen as having 7 priems only but still Hasbro said that in the Movieverse There 13 original Transformers liek all other continutys, But only 7 were prime.
Personally, the "only a Prime can kill a Prime" thing is a bit misunderstood, and they should have made it a bit more clear. The Fallen meant that only a Prime holds the potential to defeat him. He wanted Optimus dead so there is a 0% chance of anyone obtaining the potential to defeat him. The potential would be awakened when Optimus combined powers (not just forms) with Jetfire and the Matrix. And/or consider this - Megatron, being Optimus Prime's arch enemy, is literally an anti-Prime. He was DESIGNED for it.
No one mentioned that only a Prime can kill a Prime, heck, no one even IMPLIED that, THE FALLEN said that only a Prime can kill HIM, literally no mention to "A prime can Kill a Prime" is made, only that a Prime can kill THE FALLENYour assumption makes absolutely no sense. Yes, Wheelie is just that good. It's never specified where they were "Looking for something", Wheelie could be refering to the Space in general, not just Earth. Ultimately, this discussion makes no sense because the Seekers were all in stasis lock or dead, no one could bring them back without the AllSpark or some other MacGuffin. The Thirteen are probably the single most important thing of the TF lore alongside Primus and Unicron, they exist and are a multiversal singularity [just like Primus and Unicron]. You're judging the whole meaning of the phrase because Wheelie isn't exactly a genius? That's not the best way to judge things. But never EXPLICETLY, what I'm trying to say is that Sam and Mikaela never came to the conclusion you came [desperation, chaos, general lack of brains, take your pick as for why]. The Seekers weren't DECEPTICONS per say, they were created centuries [probably millenia] before The Great War came, and served to the Thirteen only, when the War broke out, some picked sides [some were Autobots, others were Decepticons], and some died on Earth, but at the end, all of them ended up dying. Which is why Wheelie never mentions them as Autobots [nor as Decepticon] in his description: They aren't "Autobot Lore", nor "Decepticon lore", they are "CYBERTRONIAN Lore", like the Thirteen Original Ones and Primus. Maybe, but Mikaela and Sam didn't think of that. Principally because Wheelie never called the Seekers Decepticons, he actually implied they were older than the goddamn War. No I'm not, the whole Prime-kill-Prime-thing is [no offense] just to you jumping to conclusions ridicuously fast. About Wheelie, the discussion is ultimately pointless because even if the Decepticons DID know about the Seekers on Earth, they woudln't be able to help. And he didn't, until he saw the pictures. Just as you said that only a Prime can kill a Prime. ...What?
That happened in the 2nd movie not the first. The fact that they are not mentioned is not evidence that they dont exsist. Not all of the original 13 used the "Prime" sufix in their names.
