peoples they are aliens now they look alien, reasoning just don't work.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by zxmagus, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. zxmagus

    zxmagus Member

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    peoples they are aliens now they look alien, reasoning just don't work.

    yes the transformers my be "aliens" but they've never been alien looking or insects (except the insecticons). I just don't get why the Decepticons are getting totally reworked and transformed into something their not coupled with the fact their very little meaningful screen time their little more then evil props.
     
  2. GundamHeavyArms

    GundamHeavyArms Zippity Doo Dah

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    One of my questions for the designs is, when did StarScream become a grunt from the Halo videogame series
     
  3. thefrozenred

    thefrozenred 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    So, because the idea was faulty in the past (ie, they've never looked like aliens before), it can't be corrected now...?

    The Transformers ARE aliens. The fact that they look humanoid is bizarre, and wrong, for the concept. If anything, we should be yelling at the creators of the show/toyline in the 80s for not being smarter.


    However, in the real world, people who vaguely recall the Transformers from the 80s WILL want to see humanoid-looking robots, not spike-covered pipes. It makes sense, but it's probably not what people want to see.
     
  4. IACON

    IACON "That's Vector Sigma?" TFW2005 Supporter

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    This is a lame excuse.
     
  5. thefrozenred

    thefrozenred 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    Right, because Star Trek was right, with all aliens looking just like humans, but with different foreheads?

    They're playing up the idea that these creatures really ARE aliens. They're clearly not trying to go for nostalgia, so that's the only logical conclusion we're left with.
     
  6. IACON

    IACON "That's Vector Sigma?" TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yes they are aliens, I agree with you but they don't have to take it to the extreme!
    It is very easy to go through that door: "They are aliens."
    Just like in the DW comics:

    Why there are combiners ?
    -Shockwave did it!

    Why there are triple changers ?
    -Shockwave did it!

    etc.
     
  7. thefrozenred

    thefrozenred 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    If they look humanoid, they don't really look like aliens to me.

    Alien, in the truest form of the word, basically means something from outside your known territory or boundary. Hence, immigrants are "aliens" (as they come from outside the border of the country), viruses are "alien" to the body (coming from beyond the body), etc.

    Now, if we're going to talk about aliens from outerspace, I fully expect them to appear like something truly ALIEN to this planet. As it stands, the design for Megatron only partly does this; the details of his body look alien, but nevertheless, it's a two legs/two arms/torso/pelvis/head template, which is common to Earth. The new Metal Gears from the METAL GEAR SOLID 4 trailers look more alien to me than these Transformers, to be honest.

    Essentially, the 80's TFs did NOT look like aliens at ALL. They looked like people. Bay is trying to distance himself from this, without going all out (as I described above). However, not only will he lose the nostalgia factor in doing so, he'll also severely impair any chance he has of successfully creating the illusion that, yes, these really are ETs (for examples of what they COULD have done, see the Sentinel robots from "The Matrix" trilogy, "War of the Worlds," etc).
     
  8. zxmagus

    zxmagus Member

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    problem is they are really ignoring the source material leaving a lot of us with fond memories of the last i donno 22 years of transformers fandom scratching our heads.

    The current style of cons isn't really alien or even original, it looks like a very blatant smattering of stuff we've seen from several other sources bound together to create generic bad guys that they don't have to spend much time explaining and from all indications don't spend much time developing stuff like why their motivated to do what they do.

    I've had a lot of reservations about this movie that i was more then happy to keep quiet about the direction of where this project is going but right now they seem to be making arbitrary and well it seems cool to them choices about stuff that by all indications is pretty important to a lot of the TF fan base, it seems that megatron and starscream where an inch we aren't willing to give.

    In the end you have to ask why radicaly differn't is better dose change for changes sake help or hurt things.
     
  9. thefrozenred

    thefrozenred 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    Given the target audience (of ALL of America, including the now 20-and-up crowd, not just TF fans), I'd say that these changes will really hurt the movie's chances of success.
     
  10. zxmagus

    zxmagus Member

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    granted us harder core of the spectrum TF fans arn't going to buy 90% of the tickets but we are going to see it multiple times if it's good we are going to tell our friends bring our girl friends and non hardcore friends to go see it and generaly spread the world far better then even the best promo and trailer.
     
  11. Scourge_151

    Scourge_151 Dangerous when naked! TFW2005 Supporter

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    How do you figure that out?
    Similarities with previous TF series follow

    Optimus Prime - Big truck, blue head with faceplate, chest windows
    Bumblebee - Smallest autobot, yellow car, friends with Witwicky kid
    Ironhide - Pickup truck (was in RiD)
    Ratchet - Ambulance, Autobot medic
    Jazz - 2IC, Sports car

    Megatron - Silver, Jet alt mode (Machine wars, Energon and Cybertron)
    Starscream - F-22 Fighter jet alt mode (this being the natural successor to his F-15 previous mode, also his Energon self was based on the F-22)
    Skorponok - Scorpion
    And we've even got a small bot who turns into a ghetto blaster who is yet unnamed.

    Also the factions are still called the Autobots and Decepticons, their symbols are pretty much the same, AND they still come from a planet called Cybertron which has been ravaged by their eons-old civil war.

    The designers are NOT ignoring the source material, they're just not using it as gospel, they're taking elements that they want to use in THEIR creative take on the Transformers.
    Their creative take just happens to be different to anything we've seen so far, which I think is a good thing.
    I don't get a joygasm over all the designs either but I still think they're cool and different.
     
  12. GundamHeavyArms

    GundamHeavyArms Zippity Doo Dah

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    On the prelim designs of Optimus Prime, it looks to me that its not the windshield that makes his chest but the silver metal thing that goes across the top of the cab.

    As far as them being aliens goes, the actual definition of alien is very vague. It includes a person from another country and a person not from Earth. I even went as far to look up extraterrestrial, and it gives no non-humanoid definition. So that argument can truely be thrown out of the window, we may not know what an alien would look like but we don't know they wouldn't be humanoid either.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "You're raping my childhood guys". To each his own though. I'm simply not going to enjoy a G1 based show that doesn't relatively stick to the designs of the G1 characters. Little things like semi, blue head, and windshield chest don't impress me. Cybertron Optimus had those, and he looked horrible in my opinion. I love ever single car design release, the cars are amazing. I even like the flames on Optimus, but I just don't like the cyborg look of the Autobots vs. the Mech Warrior look of some of the Decepticons. My favorite robot mode is by far, Blackout. Thats a cool design. The jet that turns into a Grunt from Halo, is terrible in my opinion. And the way Megatron's head is done looks so funky its not even in the realm of cool. Looks like a Matrix Source head rip-off to me. I've only seen the toy version of Scorponok, but seriously how is that design gonna fool anybody into thinking he's not a robot without having some shape-shifting involved.

    Did they truely believe that could change the designs this much and still have the support of all the people who watching G1 as kids and love G1?
     
  13. funkatron101

    funkatron101 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Since when does "Alien" only mean insect like? They are pigeon holing the alien genre to short big headed, black eyed beings and insect predator type beings.

    For all this "outside the box" thinking that they are coming up with, it sure seems unimaginative.
     
  14. leadsled

    leadsled the word is "Mortifying"

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    ITs GarBage!

    the amount of rich design history and thats what they come up with ?

    aliens or not,, G1 or not...they had everything in the palm of thier hand , and thats the ultimate best they could do ? i mean think about it


    they coulda gone to japan...they coulda gone through everything hasbro has and thats the Best they could do !?!?

    its shocking
     
  15. Kittie Rose

    Kittie Rose Banned

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    So we should undate the Vulcans and Klingons in the next Star Trek movie as not even being human-like, but not even resembling something humanoid? It's the exact same premise. Please answer this. Or arey just too "iconic"?

    Not to mention these shapes still ARE Humanoid, just with creepy retarded faces.
     
  16. GundamHeavyArms

    GundamHeavyArms Zippity Doo Dah

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    in my opinion, these new designs are closer to humanoids in then the ones with big car parts hangin off.
     
  17. Dalarsco

    Dalarsco Kickback=ROCK

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    I hate to agree with the legions of poorly grammatical fanboys, but on this issue I must jump the fence from my normal "change is good" stance. I reason TFs are unique is that unlike all the other giant robot stories, they are actual characters. The fact that they look so human really helps make them relatable as characters. That is who Star Trek still has things looking nearly human even with todays technology. Making the TFs look more alien sets a very bad precedent. It serves to make the movie much more human-centric. Before the new designs were shown, one of the few things most people on both sides of the change divide actually agreed on was that this movie should be first and foremost about the bots, not the human partners. If the bots don't look human enough to be relatable then it makes it just that much more likely that the bots will be relegated to backgroudn roles for most of it. I have no problem with the necessaty human-centric opening that the movie needs to introduce the robot characters, but I think it's important that after that the humans do as little as possible.
     
  18. Dio

    Dio Scrapper

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    As one whose opinion of the movie is overall positive right now, and though I believe these changes will ultimately be for the better in the film and toys...

    I want to issue a resounding THANK YOU to the majority of the above posters in this thread.

    Our opinions may differ, but this is the sort of constructive criticism this fandom needs - a mature discussion about honest concerns you have, that doesn't stoop to profanity or obscene metaphors to get your opinions across. I wish we had more fans like you guys around, even if they're the disappointed kind. :thumb 
     
  19. timshinn73

    timshinn73 Well-Known Member

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    Shocked is exactly how I feel.

    Nail on the head, my friend. It doesn't have to be total G1. Just make them look like Transformers for God's sake!

    22 years worth of good and bad toy, comic, and cartoon designs to use as a foundation. 22 years and that all gets flushed for these very un-TF disasters. Not the ultimate version of each character based on what everyone knows, remembers, loves about said characters.

    It's not all just a bunch of haters. I would argue people are trying to defend something they love. Hate is not my angle. Most people have said the Blackout design is as close to an actual Transformer they've come to yet. A lot of people like Prime's head. Why? because they look like they belong in the Transformers universe. Any generation. Not just G1.

    Everything else is crap. And the Megatron is the WORST. I don't care if it's just his "cybertron mode", it's a terrible design. Totally uninspired.
     
  20. zxmagus

    zxmagus Member

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    yeah thats really what over the days i've come to feel. The current designs make it really hard for any of the seen cons to convay any emotions and be relatable, their just going to be generic bad guy number 1 and 2.
     

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