Peace Loving Autobots? (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by AllSpark Ferret, Jun 21, 2009.

  1. AllSpark Ferret

    AllSpark Ferret hANDYman

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    I saw ROTF this morning and after the film something occured to me. The Autobots are supposed to be peace loving, forced only to fight to protect themselves and humans from the evil of the Decepticons. The evidence from the film gives a totally different picture:

    The peaceful Autobots:

    - Can transform parts of their bodies into weapons (Bumblebee's gun arm, Prime's pop out blades, Ironhides arm cannons, etc.)

    - Attack & destroy Decepticons without any warnings, without giving the Decepticons the chance to surrender and without attempting to capture the Decepticon's alive.

    - Sideswipe merrily cuts Sideways in half (long ways) without any provocation and without Sideways making any attempt to fight back.

    - Prime blasts Demolishor in the face and kills him.

    - Prime smashes Grindor's head in. (In this instance there is an arguement for self-defense.)

    - Bumblebee jumps Rampage from behind and kills him.

    - Bumblebee rips Ravage's spinal cord out.

    - Prime rips The Fallen's face off before killing him.

    All in all the Autobots end up looking rather blood thirsty especially when you consider that most of the Decepticons are killed by the Autobots while the Decepticons only manage to kill Prime (briefly) and Jetfire (who technically rips his own spark out.) I'd expect a peaceful race not to have built-in weapons but be forced to pick up guns to fight. Given how quickly the Autobots saughtered the Decepticons I'm surprised the war has gone on for any length of time. By the evidence of the film, The Decepticons should be extinct by the hand of the Autobots, the better fighters in the war. I'm almost sympathetic to the Decepticons when I should be horrified by what they've done and not, instead, questioning the ethics of the heros.

    Just a thought...
     
  2. Putrecon

    Putrecon Banned

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    Don't blame the Autobots, Micheal Bay made them do it...though I'm sure the protested :p 
     
  3. Brakescream

    Brakescream F&@king Twist Ties!

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    I've seen other threads like this, and to be honest, I agree, but I prefer the Autobots this way.

    The only thing I can compare them to is the G1 counterparts as that's what i grew up with, I know nothing of the other TF universes, but in G1 Autobots were completely good only involved themselves in combat when forced to kinda guys. What this meant was G1 Prime was (IMO) a good role model for kids watching, but the whole thing was very black and white, good and evil.

    In the movie, we have shades of grey. If you wanted the Decepticons to win in G1, it was only because you thought they were badass. There was no way to really agree with their motivation. In the movie however, it's entirely possible to see what they're trying to do. If you could save the human race, but at the cost of wiping out all the ants on the planet would you do it? That's the equivalent of what the Decepticons are doing. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

    The Autobots on the other hand are also in shades of grey. In the main, they are our allies. They wish to stay on our planet, and they do seem to genuinely care about our protection. But some (Ironhide, Sideswipe) are clearly born warriors and love what they're doing. As for the Shanghai thing, to use another silly analogy... If there was a known terrorist cell hiding out in (for example) New York, they havent actually done anything yet. They're just there. Would you be happy with the American military just leaving them alone until they do something, or would you want them to track them down and dispense justice?

    Autobot justice is somewhat extreme, but what do you suggest for the alternatives? Where and how would you rehabilitate Demolishor? Would you trust Sideways locked up in some impound yard. Even if they were put away somewhere. It seems all Decepticons are linked remotely and can transmit messages to each other no matter where they are. A Decepticon prisoner could easily relay vital intel to Soundwave or whatever.

    Or of course I could be overthinking things, and it's just because Sideswipe slicing up Sideways and Prime's dual sword action was far more impressive than any Autobot action I've seen thus far.
     
  4. Goatboy

    Goatboy Well-Known Member

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    Well they have been at war for thousands of years so i'd assume thats why they have built in weapons and have become fairly ruthless fighters. Its either that or go offline at the Cons hands.
    As for the Cons effectivness vs the Bots its the usuall thing in movies for bad guys to suffer from the Stormtrooper/Ninja inverse power thing.
     
  5. newguy

    newguy i

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    Bumblebee kicks ass?????? Noooooo. Damn I was looking forward to Ironhide destroying a bunch of cons.
     
  6. Thundercrackah

    Thundercrackah Well-Known Member

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    The Autobots probably would have had to make combat modifications to themselves once the war started, it doesn't make any sense not to have any weaponary when you have a whole other faction trying to kill you all the time.

    All of these can be down to self defense. If something nasty is trying extremely hard to hurt and kill you, you're gonna try and kill it first.

    Demolishor had just been responsible for the deaths of a whole load of humans, both NEST troops and humans in their cars on that freeway he drives down. He attacked first as well, smashing the ground and sending those huge pipes onto the soldiers.

    If Optimus hadn't blown him away I would think Prime was stupid.

    The Fallen was threatening to destroy Earth's sun, had killed multiple humans and forced the other Primes (Optimus' descendants) to sacrifice themselves to keep the Matrix away from him, I think I can understand Prime being pissed off enough to tear the guy's face off before killing him.

    The only one you have some truth to is Sideways, since all he did was run away.

    The bottom line is, the cartoon Autobots in all incarnations could never go around offing Decepticons left right and center, mainly because of the violence factor but also because in a series you need the characters for the continuing roster.

    The movies work differently and thus allow the Autobots to have a harder edge and show them actually killing Decepticons, which in reality they would have to do to survive a war.

    The Decepticons would not show an Autobot mercy, in a non-cartoon world the Autobots would have to be the same to a degree or risk extinction.

    Just for the record I love seeing the Autobots like this, especially after Animated where they were huge underdogs. (And yes I loved Animated before anyone starts)
     
  7. AMG

    AMG Old School

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    This TF universe is completely different than what we've see in the cartoons. The Decepticons are basically cannon fodder for big explosions and happy endings. The Autobots are extremely aggressive fighters, especially Prime, he shows no mercy. Even humans can take out even the strongest of Transformers in this universe too. It's a whole different ballgame.

    I just accept it for what it is, grab a large bowl of popcorn and enjoy the ride.
     
  8. figsdad

    figsdad Well-Known Member

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    But Sideways is a coward so why did he arrive on Earth he doesn't like fighting so he ran away and got chased into his death....
     
  9. vektsilver

    vektsilver Transorganic member

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    Why all the defensive posturing.

    The autobots are essentially more blood thirsty than the cons it seems. Love it or Hate it you have a bunch of masochistic murders as your good guys in the film.

    There is No grey there is black and white. One side versus the other side but neither of them respect life at all. While Prime says he does he seems to not hold any regard for autobot or decepticon life. He left bumble bee to die and then he completely gets his jollies off by butchering not killing but butchering and maiming the opposing faction.

    This is what kinda a movie you get when you put morons behind the wheel of a big budget.
     
  10. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    I keep seeing statements like this... And I don't agree. They don't seem to be doing things that they need to do to 'survive' war. There are rules to war and just because the Decepticons don't follow them doesn't meant he autobots get to murder and maim without being wrong.

    And there are shades of grey... Decepticons have been without a home too. Many of them are ruled by intimidation and force and are just doing what they can to survive. We have no idea what Sideways was doing or why. As far as we know he was a decepticon who touched down just looking for a new home and WHAMMO, he is disemboweled while FLEEING. And since they don't have time to develop these characters, we don't see the motive or the history, just the robot murder.

    You can't have it both ways. Either the Autobots are White hats Which means they refrain from killing Blackhats whenever possible, or everyone is a shade of grey which means even decepticons may not always be doing harm that justifies killing them simply for having an affiliation which makes Prime's words hollow and makes him just another robot murdering thug trying to control earth his own way.

    Sorry if I prefer my Autobots to have white hats.
     
  11. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    His home planet is dead and his race scattered across the universe. If I had spent tens of thousands of years alone trying to survive and I heard Prime's inspirational message from the end of TF1, I would come to earth too, even if I was a decepticon...

    He sounds like a Refugee more than anything. Even in war, he would probably be captured as a POW instead of killed. Even if he is performing a military courier action.

    Just because it is 'war' doesn't mean you kill everyone that you see immediately.
     
  12. figsdad

    figsdad Well-Known Member

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    Agree he was chased and bullied into his death for no reason to kill him he could of changed sides no problem and prime should of heard him out and to have someone else on his team.
     
  13. Putrecon

    Putrecon Banned

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    Sideswipe even gloated about what a "good" kill it was afterwards :D 
     
  14. HyperD00D

    HyperD00D Well-Known Member

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    these are all good points. I think prime's blood thirst is justified. But the others? Hmm. It's getting to that point now where the decepticons don't feel that threatening. Shot themselves in foot for #3.
     
  15. figsdad

    figsdad Well-Known Member

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    Well i hope in the 3rd its more of a even fight maybe like the g1 movie most of the autobots get killed..
     
  16. Thundercrackah

    Thundercrackah Well-Known Member

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    And rightfully so. :) 

    I don't agree with any of this at all.

    Different strokes for different folks though, it's cool.
     
  17. Brakescream

    Brakescream F&@king Twist Ties!

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    According to TF wiki, movie 'swipe is a relatively young autobot. The war and fighting is all he's ever known. You see movies with human soldier characters who are great fighters but wouldn't know what to do with themselves if there was no war. I see Sideswipe like one of these. He just happens to also be a showoff who enjoys what he does.
     
  18. Faxon

    Faxon Well-Known Member

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    He's like someone in 50's America. So set in his ways, that he will ruthlessly do away with the enemy without thinking of them as a fellow person.
     
  19. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    If Movie Prime was in the following series:

    *Movie prime would have had his autobots break into the fight in "Heavy Metal War" when he began to lose. There is no cybertronain Honor in war. The Autobots would have quickly have seen the Decepticons were disarmed and slaughtered the bunch wholesale and ended the war.

    *Movie Prime would have Shot megatron and Hotrod dead in his battle at Autobot City in TF:TM. It is war and Hotrod is collateral Damage. Megatron is an enemy combatant and for the war to end, even unarmed he should be exterminated with lethal force.

    *Movie Prime would have let Dinobot fall to his death in the duel because Dinobot was a Predacon and simply being an enemy in a war. Killing Dinobot would have helped tilt things in their favor.

    *Movie Prime would have made sure every Predacon that was injured was hunted down and put to death with a Kill shot in the name of war. Waspinator would have been destroyed utterly the first time. Slowly as the rest were subdued they would be exterminated. Movie Primal would have sieged the Predacon's fortress and destroyed the CR chambers and all of their resources.

    *Movie Prime would have slain TM2 Megatron and destroyed his spark to end the beast wars instead of capturing him and strapping him to the shuttle where he escaped and took over cybertron.

    *Movie Prime would have seized the Star saber and Requiem Blaster and used it to destroy Megatron and the Armada decepticons utterly in the name of war and winning the war. Minicons had no freedom and were drafted into service in the name of war.

    *Movie Prime would have killed every decepticon the autobots bested instead of using Stasis Cuffs. He would have killed Megatron instead of capturing him and taking him back to Cybertron as killing someone is the only action in a warsone.

    See how it works? Apply The movie's "this is war" to every TF series we have ever had and the autobots lose all honor and all ability to do the right thing. They simply overcome and murder the decepticons int he name of peace and saving their race.
     
  20. evebird

    evebird Waiting for Omega

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    I pretty much agree with your post. I shared some similar thoughts in another thread a while back and was basically ridiculed as a hippie and called a female body part.

    The fact is, the Autobots in the movieverse are more like anti-heroes than heroes.
     

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