optimus vs silas?(spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by supernova222, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. supernova222

    supernova222 junkion

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    ok, one thing i find desturbing about optimus' battle against nemesis.

    optimus, the leader of the autobots, who probably has AT LEAST a couple thousand years of fighting underneath his belt is losing in a fight against a cheap copy of himself controlled by human with maybe 30 or 40 years of experience, WHO'S actions should be limited by not actually fighting but working a controller

    anyone else see that as a little shitty or what
     
  2. TheMrmaster21

    TheMrmaster21 I will swallow your soul.

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    Well, yeah, but just look at the Micheal Bay's movies; Humans were able to kill Decepticons who raged chaos throughout the universe and cybertron, when so many, including the Autobots, failed to do so.
     
  3. LCDR Blindside

    LCDR Blindside Banned

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    Cybertronians learn much slower than humans.
     
  4. Arashistorm

    Arashistorm Well-Known Member

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    while it was weird, the show did give reasons for it. The controls got rid of lag and whatnot, so Silas' reflexes were instant through the controls, there was no time delay. Plus, as experienced as Prime is, you'd have to think of how many itme sin his past he entered hand to hand combat against someone who went more skill over brute force. In his fight with megatron, they were just bashing on each other, but against Silas it was more counter strikes/military tactics, so regardless of experience, it comes down to what Prime fought constantly and the obvious plot reasons... but I don't see anything TOO wrong with it. Now Bulkhead falling fast enough to catch Fowler's car before it hits the ground? That's a problem
     
  5. Wrecker217

    Wrecker217 Heart Like a Hand Grenade

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    It has a neural telepathic-or-whatever interface, allowing it to be controlled via the mind as well. Why else would Silas be waving his arms around as well?
     
  6. wm10k

    wm10k Reanimator of Dead Things

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    yeah...that last bit.

    i understand he positioned his body to be more aerodynamic but c'mon....really?
     
  7. Quirriff

    Quirriff Well-Known Member

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    Optimus got his combat training downloaded into him from the Matrix....Thus he has all the old style combat arts of the previous primes in him. Martial arts evolve...
     
  8. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Prime needs to learn Kung Fu.

    Neo learned it...
     
  9. DepthWave

    DepthWave Decepticon Storm Trooper.

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    Optimus Prime has reached his limits.
     
  10. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    They probably didn't want to beat the Superman parallel drum too loudly......since you know Silas is Lex Luthor, only far less entertaining.
     
  11. derob2511

    derob2511 cybertronian architect

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    i was bothered by it too...

    while its a cool concept that when on leveled terms, humans can fight equally against cybertronians....

    but the series pretty much "seasoned" Prime and Megs as top fighters. One as the prime and the other one as the gladiator.

    Silas can pretty much fight every con and autobot out there except for the two leaders.

    Then again, i may have answered my question that Silas is the greatest living human warrior


    ...the more i think of this issue now, the more i question consistencies in terms of every character's skill in this show. I bet those strong insecticons if swarms all over, theyll be no different than the vehicons
     
  12. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    It's a kids show. Heroes always get beat down in the first half, and come back during the last few moments of the last half--this isn't a new concept.

    If this were a show aimed at the adult audience, MECH's advances would have been more in depth, not these quick clips we see each and every time they come on screen.

    I thought the writers tried to explain Optimus' weakness to Nemesis with Silas line about pain. Optimus was slowed by pain and stamina, things Nemesis need not worry about. Yeah, it's a bit silly, but...it's a kids show with lots of nods to fans of old.
     
  13. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it, martial arts and combat in general is a bit more complicated. There are a lot of factors involved, style, technique, experience, conditioning, state of mind, experience and a lot more.

    Optimus may have faced countless Cybertronians in his time, but has he faced human type martial arts? Or in particular the style of martial arts Silas is using? Was his style of fighting good against Silas'. Was he at the right state of mind during the fight? Was he in his peak condition? Who was more prepared to go one on one with Optimus? Silas who's been watching him fight previously?

    I don't see anything particularly wrong about Silas pushing Prime to the edge.
     
  14. Decay_is_awesome

    Decay_is_awesome Well-Known Member

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    I didnt mind it too much. Once you reach a certain point you can only improve so much, even if you have a whole lot of time. It was mainly hand to hand and I would assume most of Primes experience was in fire fights and tactics while the war was raging.

    I would have given Prime a huge advantage over Silas in keeping his cool in the heat of the moment but the fact there was no sense of pain for Silas would have really changed the balance. Had he actually had to deal with being beaten around and feeling like his life was on the line he probably would have been less clinical about it and less able to predict and counter Primes attacks. Like a backseat driver who doesnt have to deal with any of the stress of avoiding other cars or pedestrians so can nit pick every tiny thing you do wrong.

    They explicitly stated that the no pain factor was an advantage so it was probably a big factor that Silas had counted on giving him an edge.
     
  15. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    You know what else is important, nay, vital? Using all your senses: without some kind of tactile feedback, Nemesis Prime would be flailing about as if he was on a Wii. They'd need to spend months calibrating that thing for Silas to be able use in the sort of 1 for 1 movement and without a sense of balance, all the combat training in the world falls on its arse. Without being able to feel his centre of gravity and that of his opponent, Silas should have had his arse handed to him in short order and contrary to popular belief, pain is handy in a fight.
     
  16. biscuits

    biscuits Sin from Genesis

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    Also Silas couldn't feel the pain, so when he got punched it didn't inflict any pain on him allowing him to throw another punch right away :) 
     
  17. Flashdisk

    Flashdisk Well-Known Member

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    That's just an opinion of the level of technology of Mech. The only thing he said was that puppet did not transmit the feeling of pain. Nothing else was mentioned regarding the other senses. Hence I consider it a given that Silas had almost complete sensory input from the machine.
     
  18. Quirriff

    Quirriff Well-Known Member

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    That's all true....But he was operating by remote and obviously there would be some sort of feedback/warning system to take the place of pain.....but it doesn't affect the operator (Silas).

    Modern Aircraft controls have all the feedback added artificially these days since they're all digital. Because of that very reason.

    So pain is a very handy thing in a fight indeed......but if you can't add pain...at least add some sort of feedback to the system.
     
  19. Mxprime

    Mxprime Banned

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    I think Silias' fighting experience and skill is probably the same level as optimus.

    Course Optimus has lived far longer and fought much longer, but you've got to remember that Cybertronians have a longer lifespan than us. If our lifespans were the same I wouldn't be surprised if Optimus and Silas would be around the same age both being war vets. Like Optimus' thousands of years old is the equivalent to whatever ass old age Silas is. Look at Bumblebee he has outlived the humans by centuries and yet he's still inexperienced.
     
  20. derob2511

    derob2511 cybertronian architect

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    were getting all too technical,

    still the series, a couple of past episodes conditioned me that Prime (and Megatron) were superior warriors...

    especially that epic fight in the latter episodes of season.

    Silas' "exceptional" fighting skills could be more plausible for the rest of the other bots.
     

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