Optimus Punches Ratchet

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by TFFan01, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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  2. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee I must be some kind of nut...

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    That would have been way out of character! Say what you will about Aligned Optimus Prime, but he would never commit an act of physical violence on one of his soldiers, especially not a close friend of his like Ratchet! Yeah, Ratchet would have been crossing a serious line, but at most, Optimus would raise his voice and call Ratchet out for being insensitive. I just don't see Optimus Prime, the guy who was understanding when Arcee allowed her grief to chase away a potential tactical advantage, who comforted Bumblebee who was feeling useless after losing his T-Cog in addition to his voice box, who told Ultra Magnus that Team Prime (which includes himself) has become a family, punching out one of his oldest friends in a fit of anger. It feels petty, and Optimus is anything but petty.
     
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  3. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    I understand why they didn't have that because not only would it be out of character for Optimus in this series but it would also would've made the situation between them worse at the time. Not to mention if Elita wasn't going to be brought into the show later on in some manner or another there's no point of referencing her anyway.
     
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  4. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    I actually think that would've been a great scene. Would've actually showed that Optimus is a real person with real emotions who isn't just a blank-stare robot. It would've showed that he is, for lack of a better term, human and all that entails.

    Optimus never lost his cool, he never showed real emotion. He was boring as dirt with all the naunce of stale bread. He never acted rashly or selfishly even if it was brief, and it really was a detriment to his character. Maybe he didn't need to clock Ratchet, but maybe the two could've had a real, heated, shouting arguement. And he was never wrong. He always had some moral high ground to fall back on that made him look good even if he made a wrong move, and having him do something he really shouldn't have like acting on a violent impulse would've been a great way of showing that yeah, he has buttons that can be pushed.
     
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  5. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    All I have to say to this (And excuse me if it sounds brashfull its not my intent) is that this thing you describe is not Optimus Prime. Yeah I understand what you would like to see, but Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime he is perfect. And no I am not kidding. Its supposed to be that way, you either take it or leave it.
     
  6. janeDoe001

    janeDoe001 Well-Known Member

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    As much as I would've like to have seen Optimus slap/deck Ratchet for taking it too far, I think they did the right thing in omitting it. It would've cheapened the moment when OP actually did lose his cool. Now, if something similar were to happen in RiD, that would be great.


    jD001
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Says who, exactly? Like seriously, have to disagree pretty heavily with this. Was TFA Optimus Prime not Optimus Prime because he was imperfect? Where does it say Optimus must be perfect? And how is that at all a good thing for storytelling? He's not Superman, and even if he was Superman isn't perfect.

    "Take it or leave it" is incredibly dismissive and backwards thinking. The idea that Prime Optimus is infallible and basically Space Jesus is so, so fucking derivitive and stupid. It is the most blunt and uncreative take on the character ever. "He's the leader of the good guys, so he must be the goodest guy of all!" But the thing is, he wasn't perfect. The show sure wanted him to be in-universe, but he constantly made poor judgement calls and had shitty morals. It's like when bad writers write Batman as this infallible, unstoppable force who's always right despite them making him a massive asshole who only succeeds in leaps of logic and not through any actual measure of success.

    So in the end the character is left in an awkward middle ground: he is not convincingly the perfect reincarnated God he's supposed to be, but he isn't at all nuanced or humanly flawed in any endearing way. And really, not only would the latter have been the path of least resistance, it would've given the character anything at all.
     
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  8. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    While seeing a more human side to Optimus would've greatly improved his character, I don't know if that's the way to do it. Optimus isn't someone who should be easy to push into a violent outburst. Plus, it would've been extra weird since this would be the first time we've heard of Elita in this continuity and the first time viewers would've ever heard the name.
     
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  9. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your rage and for no more or less calling me stupid. I am sure you will promote dialogue by using all that beautiful wording in real life too...Nothing more to say.
     
  10. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Umm, I didn't? Unless you were the one who wrote the Covenant of Primus.

    Like, I wasn't kidding when I called him Space Jesus. (I'm also nowhere near the first to do so) He's literally the 13th Prime reincarnated. He is ordained to be great. Sorry, I probably should've cited that a bit better but I mean it is pretty commonly known in my defense.
     
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  11. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry bro, I am not in the age where I have the patience anymore to go up against this attitude, you will have to excuse me but I dont see in that responce grounds for discussion.
    And by that responce I mean your previous.
     
  12. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    That's a little odd that you don't see "grounds for discussion" in that response when it's basically just elaborating on what my original post was, which you did respond to.

    And if it wasn't grounds for discussion, would you really need to tell me that and not just kinda not reply? You deliberately brought up the subject of Prime being perfect then say it's not worth discussing?
     
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  13. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    You have a flaw in your reasoning. I dont see any grounds for discussion according to the tone of your response. Its too hostile and as I said frankly I dont have the patience or the interest for hostile discussion.
     
  14. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    What's hostile about it? Because I said fuck? I mean if I told you now it wasn't meant to be hostile would that at all change anything? Also, you're still engaging in (actually pointless) discussion with me anyway, except instead of discussing the topic of the thread or the topic you brought up, it's how you won't discuss with me. :lol 

    I mean, it kinda seems less like you lack the "patience" to talk with me and more like you just can't argue my point and are trying to deflect my criticism of the "Prime is supposed to be perfect" arguement because it's, well, not exactly a great arguement. But I respect your decision to avoid conversation if that's what you believed, but let me at least clarify any hostilities you inferred weren't targetted towards you, but were directed to my frustrations with the show and character itself.

    I missed this post but I'll add I think maybe instead of out-and-out socking Ratchet in the jaw, maybe like a forceful shove. Like Ratchet was getting in his face and Optimus pushed him back partly because of his comments and partly because Ratchet himself could've been getting aggressive with his arguing because of the Synthen. This could've showed both that Optimus was in some capacity emotionally vulnerable, and that Ratchet was crossing lines he shouldn't have.

    Honestly, my biggest issue with it is that it yet again establishes another dead character in Prime's already dead universe, and that it falls back on the "dead girlfirned/wife" cliche. But still, it should've been retooled, not dropped entirely.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
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  15. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    That's something I certainly could get behind. It would be different from what we're used to, but that would've been good. If the show wanted to be taken seriously as something dark and edgy, they needed to take at least some small risks like this.
     
  16. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    It also could've been used to show how under stress Optimus was. Maybe have Bulkhead mention how Prime would've shrugged off a verbal assault like that before, but as their situation gets worse and worse, he's become more and more stressed and easily rilled. You never really feel like Team Prime is actually bothered by their dour situation aside from some generic pathos.
     
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  17. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how one of the original portrayals of him (particularly, the Marvel incarnation) doesn't portray him the way you describe the character. The writer Simon Furman, for example, gave him a guilt-ridden character arc.

    Don't get me wrong, he was still portrayed as a great leader (just like all his incarnations) but even he wasn't perfect.
     
  18. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Perfect considering his morals and integrity. Yes he did mistakes, they all did. If anything OP is a megalith of Morals with an unbreakable spirit regarding his dedication to his belief. Thats what he was designed to be. I dont counter argue that there arent any other itterations out there but what OP really means if not nobility morals and integrity?
     
  19. Chopperface

    Chopperface Holtzmanned

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    Oh man I would've loved this scene to have happened! Prime Optimus was so annoying perfect that they needed something like this. Though one, yeah I agree that the dead wife trope is kinda tropey. Two, both of them would've needed to really get in each other's face and roar at each other for better build-up. But yes to this scene!!
     
  20. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    I don't argue that he should be without morals and integrity either.

    Comic Optimus as I said before is a great leader, with high morals but even then, there were times where he lost his cool, where he showed real emotions and was not the two-dimensional bore that is Prime Optimus. I believe that is how an Optimus should be.
     

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