Actually North America has the stronger TF franchise as we've got more variety in the lines then Japan has. All Japan has is Kiss-Play and a few MP figures, and while the figures might be nice. Most of the fandom (myself included) find Kiss-Play's concept (judging from the comics) to be "out there" and seriously creepy. And really not a solid TF line

And about taking risks, look at the pics of the movie toys. That looks like taking a risk and trying something new to me  

 

I live in Asia and I can tell you that TakaraTomy isn't doing as well as Hasbro. Sure they're releasing more high-end stuff but its geared towards collectors. Takaratomy is going for a somewhat "market-skimming" (High price-low quantity) strategy instead of "market penetration" (Low price-high quantity).

Sure TakaraTomy's products are available to the public as a whole but they're not produced as much as a mass retail product is. Even worse, the QC for TakaraTomy seems to be worsening. Example, Master Piece Starscream.

Despite what you say, age demographics play a very important factor. That's why you have TF products like the Master Piece and...the KISS line which is border-line "soft-porn".

No parent in his right mind would buy a KISS toy for a 6-11 year old. One of the reasons why TakaraTomy is including PVC girlie figures is to have a share in the gasphon/PVC figures (spelling?) in Japan. And yeah, I find the KISS line disgusting.

 

The Kiss Player line is obviously aimed at japanese otakus, who are know for spending rivers of money in collectibles. The Binaltech line was aimed at the 15+ aundience buy hey, teenagers don't want toys - they may play videogames, but they're behind the girls. No wondering why Binaltech has been cancelled. Otakus are adults already, and collect anime and game stuff.

It's weird, but as long as there's a market for stuff like this in Japan or anywhere else, TakaTomy will try to sell it. It's not like they're trying to push this stuff all the way down to North America or something. You won't get Kiss Players unless you import it, anyway.

 

Yeah, I was just making my point that TakaraTomy was using age demographics to push its products.

 

'Japan is always willing to take more risks'? What the hell are you talking about?

And dude, Kissplay is abhorrent.

As LigerPrime has pointed out, Takara hasn't done very well financially or conceptually with Transformers for the past decade, which is an inverse to Hasbro's comparative sucesses with the franchise.

Hasbro did say Takara tends to aim their Transformers mainline at a younger age group than they do. Its called age demographics and market segmentation.
Look at the wide-ranging changes to the US Beast Wars series when it was dubbed for japanese consumption, as well as the different tone of the Japan-made Beast Wars series compared to the ongoing US version. Hirofumi Ichikawa himself wrote, and I quote, 'a very indignant [doujinshi] decrying the "funny" dub of Beast Wars that was presented in Japan that had removed much of the "serious sci-fi" edge that had made the show immensely popular with the English-speaking fanbase'.

You can bring up the argument that its cultural differences and how we must respect Japan's differing tastes, but the fact is younger kids entertainment is still younger kids entertainment, and Takara has been aiming their mass-produced mainline TFs at a younger age than say, Bandai does with Gundam and Tomy does with Zoids, and thus produce the accompanying cartoons accordingly.

 

You're basing this on what observations exactly?

Look how long Hasbro's lines last. They have them run their course and eventually let them end.

Takara, meanwhile, start a line met with loads of fan enthusiam, and then have it end after what? Three toys?

*erm*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Anyhoo... You don't seriously think Takara were bored to detah with their Binaltech line because it was selling like hot cakes and they were looking for new challenges, which resulted in Kiss Players? Or what? I really don't get this line of thought. What "risks" is Takara taking? Releasing toys that don't sell well? Sounds like Takara's TF lines for the past 3+ years to me.

Yeah, like... Nervous Guy! Cutout Mindless Evil Follower Guy! The Stupid Bully Duo! Sterotype Fembot! Heroic Hero Guy!

I give you Armada Starscream, but other than that, the only thing that made these characters remotely "memorable" were the refreshing lines written for them by Vociebox for the Cybertron dub (whereas the Armada dub was "so-so" and the Energon dub was "meh").

 

Yeah, I really do fail to see the whole "interesting concept" of KissPlay. To each their own I guess. I will give Takara some props, they can engineer some masterful toys when they want to(Most of RiD for example) But when it comes to marketing, they usually fall short (again I use RiD as an example, IMO the show was a joke and not the good kind either)

However, from what I know of BW2, Neo they were pretty good. Certainly not the silly story telling.

 

Japan really have done a lot for the TF Franchise, I wont ramble on about how much good and bad theyve done. They kept TF's alive since after after Beast Wars, admittedly, some of those shows were so poorly animated, with such annoying characters, they soon became unwatchable (I'm looking at you BWII/Neo). RiD was good, it was fresh, and the toy line was balanced out by repaints of good toys, padded out with great new molds.

The Unicron Trilogy:
- Armada:- Some of the animation looked like the animators were too lazy too finish it, but some parts, namely most of it from 'Overmatch' onwards, were top notch! I didnt watch the Micron Legend version, I hate watching shows with subtitles, and I dont want 'sama' at the end of every sentence. I found the US dub to be very enjoyable, and had Characters that were really brought alive by great voices, The Decepticons mostly. There were some cringe worthy moments though, the one that comes to mind most, Thrust's Death, where his eyes went all anime and he looked like a scared freaking kitten.

- Energon: Some good Characters, not an amazing dub, some dire Characters.
some examples of bad dubs:
Megatron from as soon as he gets inside Unicron, most of his lines are 'hahaha'.
Snowcats lines are usually 'yodelooo hahahaha'

Too much of the combat was just stand in one place with bullets missing completely. (Everyone in Energon was a crap shot) They wasted a lot of Character potential too, with the Combiners, they should have been written in earlier, and each limb should have had a robot mode, and a voice. I dont really recall them bothering too explain why the Combiner limbs dont have brains or robot modes, whereas I believe Superlink explained that they had been in combined mode so long, only the main body was still active. (Or so I've been led to believe)

- Cybertron: I actually liked this, except for the bits with the kids and the mini-cons. The Speedia/Velocitron arc dragged on way too long, and only 1 good thing came out of it, Dirt Boss, and he got left behind anyway. The bits shown on Animatros were minimal, which sucks, as they had the coolest inhabitants. Earth was lame because it was just the Autobots flying round most of the time. Episode 32-Giant Planet was when the series really got good, the Giant planet bits introduced great Characters: Soundwave, Menasor, Metroplex, Quick-mix. Also, some characters, Sideways, Galvatron, Scourge and even Prime all had a ton of character development on Giant Planet.
WTF Was with the 'shocking' discovery of the history of Gigantion/Planet X, it ended up being completely ignored, so it was a wasted scene, should have been used for more plot development.

 

Wasn't the "shocking discovery" that at some point in the past Planet X had attempted an invasion of Gigantion, only to essentially be exterminated(including the planet as well? Not sure on that point) with only a few bitter survivors. (Soundwave, Sideways, and loads of Lazerbeaks)

The only plot point I am unsure of(or was probably never even covered) was the origins of Planet X. Since the other four planet populations originally came from Cybertron. Are the X-ers an exiled group that eventually settled on another planet? Were they exiled from Gigantion, hence they return to seek revenge?
The comics say they originate/and are in league with Unicron, but I am curious as to the animated series explanation.

 

I agree...I'm not bashing TakaraTomy and I do give them credit for trying their best to give the TF franchise alive. However, they seems to have made a mess in recent times. The KISS line just demonstrates how pretty desparate they are...ts border-line soft porn and they removed the diecast content to cut costs too.

I just pointing out that age demographics play an important part in the marketing process.

 

No origin was ever really given in the show to my knowledge. That part of the series could have done with another ten episodes or so to fully explain all of that, give Soundwave's plot some real screen time, and delved more into Megatron / Galvatron's final plan. Episode 51 where Animatros was on the collision course with Cybertron was incredible though, one of my favourite TF moments of all time.

 

Ooooor they could have used the time they wasted on dragged out battles that lasted like five episodes to explain all those dangling plot points better.

 

Didn't Car Robots also fail spectacularly in Japan?

You could say that Hasbro (again, due to luck and good timing) imported another failed Takara line to the US where it achieved surprising sucess.

I love Armada for Emo Starscream, yet I hate Mat Hill's consistant overacting and bad hispanic accent for Carlos. I will grow to hate him more in Energon, and be perplexed to as why he's a relatively good actor in Gundam.

Energon's dub was worse than Armada's.
I don't know if you noticed but the yodelling snowcat's lines are almost a direct lift from the japanese Superlink version. Most character traits we might consider bad were written by the japanese writers.

If you want to talk about wasted potential, look at Demolishor. He went from an agnst ridden Decepticon with divided loyalties who made the ultimate sacrifice to a comic relief gorilla dump Truck.

Apparently Hasbro designed and engineered these toys own their own late in production of the series, that's why they suddenly became a plot point three-quarters through the show.
The fact that only the middle robot had a personality and ever transformed is a japanese super robot convention, limbs are usually drones. However, that fighting special episode did finally show the limbs in robot mode very briefly with a flashy cel-animated combining sequence. Only time they used it too, for some reason.

-The Race That Never Ends.
-Everybody: "GIMMICK NAME, CATCHPHRASE!"
-Prime: "GALAXY CONVOY, SUPAH MODE-OH!"
-Lots and lots of stock footage, sometimes the SAME stock footage repeating within minutes of each other.
-Bud's japanese voice actress almost making me stab my own ears out. The actor in the canadian dub was great, however.

Let's not forget Hasbro.

Frankly, I dont know what's wrong with Takara - they can't flog TFs when its the own toyline and series. They can't flog TFs when Hasbro works with them... of course Takara goes off changing things to suit their needs.

 

Takaratomy's approach to TFs have to be different from Hasbro because they face more "mecha/robot" competition in Japan unlike Hasbro.

I give Hasbro credit for going their best such as giving us Classics, reissues but seriously, I can't think of a robot toy line that can threaten Hasbro's dominance of robot toys in America. The toy culture is different for both countries.

As a result, Hasbro can afford to experiment with concepts of Beast Wars, Beast Machines and TF movie designs.

TFs is Japan face extreme competition from other mecha lines such as Gundam, Soul of Chogokin, Sentai. Most mecha collectors in Asia would choose other robot brands over TFs because the "collector" emphasis in those lines. Example, design, articulation, quality of materials used etc. That's the route TakaraTomy is taking.

 

Yeah, but after that scene where Lori, Override and Wingsaber find the recording of Planet X's attack, I think its mentioned in conversation once breifly, and never used again.

I blame Tomy for all the latest stuff from Takara (Like Kiss-play and MP Greenscream), since the merger, they have definately changed significantly, Im not sure if its for better or worse.

 

One major problem with Takara's mainline strategy was they aimed TOO young. Not for theme, pricing and affordability. Even going by the fact parents will buy toys for kids, kids will want to be cheap, low-cost simple toys that they can buy with their pocket money. High starting prices will already discourage parents from letting their kids take an interest in the line.

Transformers are a comparatively expensive line for that age group and market. Either they need to drastically slash prices and make simpler basic toys (which is probably bad in the long run), or aim at the Gundam-type market group.

 

And thus you have explained why Takara has to deviated from Hasbro because at their price-point, Japanese parents can buy cheaper toys such as Ultraman etc.

And that's why TakaraTomy has not released Classics (for now) because they can't compete with other toys sharing the same age demographics and price point.

 

Actually there's the Power Ranger line. That's about the only robot toyline I can think of that's North America has

 

Weren't the Transformers lines that were basically Japanese imports of Hasbro-driven lines (G1, Beast Wars) and dubs of the accompanying TV shows traditionally the most successful TF lines in Japan?

As in - Hasbro releases a TF line in the USA, launches a TV show written for a US audience, then Takara brings over the line to Japan and dubs the TV show into Japanese - success! (and yet, Japanese fans complain about poor dubs)
Takara produces a line on their own with a Japanese audience in mind, aims for the standard "Super Robot" market - failure!

Gee, I wonder why.

 

Part of the reason I love the Classics line is the fact it gets back to the roots. Optimus Prime doesn't need a supermode. In fact, he's cooler WITHOUT one. Anyone can strap on a super pack and bulk up to the same size as a massive baddie and go brawn-to-brawn. But to have the combination of skill, toughness and sheer chromium ball bearings to go up against someone like Devestator WITHOUT any of those things and WIN, or to plow through the main Decepticon assault force from behind and take out half of them before they figure out what's going on... THAT'S badass. We haven't seen a Prime do stuff like that since G1.

I liked G1 because it was a mix. It wasn't about who was the most powerful... everyone had specialties, and there were serious tradeoffs. Brawn was small, not a lot of firepower, but he was physically stronger than bots three times his size. The Dinobots were tanks, heavy armor, firepower... but they were slow, rebellious and not all that bright (Though not as dumb as Season 3 portrayed them). Devestator was massively powerful, but the power came at the cost of intellect. NONE of the combiners functioned mentally very well, making it a last resort when extra power was needed, and one that left weaknesses.

The Japanese series tend to insist that the leaders are the most powerful (Galvatron was practically a god by the end of Cybertron). Too much character development is tossed aside in favour of power-ups.

I'm not saying a NA production would be inherently superior. 90% of EVERYTHING is crap, after all. But it would be nice to have something made specifically for the NA market instead of imported for once.