You know, I always thought it would be funny if once, back in the day,Kup & Ironhide shared a similar relationship as the Kup& Hotrod relationship.

Meaning, Kup was already old by the time Ironhide came on line.

BTW, long time no see.

 

Yeah, it's like old times in here.  

I actually started writing a Mosaic-style flashback story a while back on a similar theme, except with Ironhide as the the crusty old check-point officer, and "Pickup" as the impressionable young teal transport bot from the country, who just wanted some good stories to take to the folks back home.  

That was also the story where I suggest that Optimus was basically a trucker named "Convoy" before being called to greatness, a freedom-loving road philosopher traveling every inch of the planet. Because, after all, "Convoy" makes so much sense. Screw "Optronix" and "Orion Pax". Those are stupid names!  

zmog

 

kup, tfa ratchet and ironhide should have a curmudgeon-off.

 

Movie Jetfire forgot more about being old and grouchy than those three have ever learned.

 

I would have liked to here that.

And its kool to see you guys.

 

It only really exists as a rough script outline with brainstormed dialog and stuff at the moment. It started as a Mosaic, and then just kept getting longer... no idea if I'll do anything with it now... the notion of doing the art was intimidating enough!

We're all still around, for the most part I think. Just posting less, and not in the same threads, I guess.  

zmog

 

We move in different circles.

If you ever do the work post it or pm it to me.

 

Smog I have to say I like your interpretation of Kup and I love your origin for Optimus. Maybe it's the John Wayne sounding voice Cullen gave Prime in the G1 cartoon but I can totally see your version being a better fit than a records clerk. That said, given his compassion in most versions, the old Marvel suggestion that he had been training as a medic is a good fit too. It's the 'official' records clerk origin that feels wrong to me though the WFC novel made a good stab at it.

Anywho, back to the topic. Personally, I've never really liked Kup. Though he had a boring bot mode, an indeterminate vehicle mode and knowalls get on my nerves. I will say when I finally bought the reissue, I was impressed with the toy though the head seems too big and cartoony to me. My favourite oldbots are G1 Ironhide and Animated Ratchet, though Movie Ratchet could be considered an oldbot himself, in which case I'll add him to my list.

I will say Roche and AHM have made Kup a bit more interesting in my eyes. I love what Roche has done with Prowl though. He's not the tech spec conflicting whiner Furman makes him, he's almost the Batman of Transformers. As a friend of mine said years ago, the point about Batman is he's smarter than everyone else. To me, this is what Roche is doing with Prowl and I love it. I also love the fact that now the overrated Kup is Prowl's puppet.

Prowl to me had a great G1 toy and tech spec but the fiction over the years has turned a lot of people against him as he's depicted as a whiney prick. It's nice to see Roche breathe some likeability back into him and have him controlling the very overrated (to me at least) Kup.

 

Thanks... yeah, I HATE the WarWithin Optronix origin. Stupid name, unlikable character, and that "instant hero" origin robs Optimus of the integrity of having come by his wisdom and status through honest work, experience, and personal growth. WFC managed to improve it, but I think it's still fundamentally a bad take on the character.

Exactly... I feel like Optimus was a sort of renaissance man, with a jack-of-all-trades skill base. I like the idea of him being the type of guy who was way too smart to still be hauling freight around, but he did it because he liked the spiritual aspect of travel, of meeting others and learning new things, along with the sense of freedom it gave him (this also explains how he could coordinate groups of Autobots once war broke out... he has friends everywhere, and knows the land) .

If Hasbro really wanted to fold something like that into the Optronix origin (and I gave this some thought), it could be said that Op/Convoy continuously turned down promotions so he could stay on the road, but due to his exceptional data capacity (this is mentioned in his G1 bio) and knowledge of the entire planet, he finally was formally reassigned to the central archives and given a desk job, along with a new codename/designation ("Optronix") to fit. But that's kind of a stretch.  

In terms of character development and sheer personality, Animated Ratchet is by far the best "old bot" we've seen in pretty much ANY of the fictions. Ironhide is a classic, but besides being the "old cowboy", he didn't get to do much more.

Everything you just said, +1.  

Now if only we can keep Prowl off-screen long enough for Costa to leave IDW, because I'd rather he didn't f***-up what Roche did any more than he already has. Roche is the first TF writer who ever really got Prowl right and gave him his due... and whether his activities are sinister or not, it makes me like the character a LOT more. You're right. He's a bit of Spock, and a bit of Batman, but without the theatricality. Or the charisma I guess. One of the main original traits of Prowl was that he was very quiet... perfectly satisfied to sit in the background listening... and planning.

Haha... who are we talking about again? Kup?  

I don't mind Kup. But I agree that he's become overrated, and I'd like to see him handled a bit differently, and without stepping so much on Ironhide's schtick.

zmog

 

It's funny you compare Prowl to Spock. Whenever I watch the Star Trek movies, I love the chemistry between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Ther's great humour in there as well. I'd love to see Prime, Prowl and Ratchet portrayed in the same way.

As for Ironhide, I love his cartoon look with the mohawk helmet and Cullen's voicework on him was as amazing as his Optimus'. Picked up the custom head and the encore toy and he's one of my alltime favourite's both toywise and in the fiction.

On the subject of Kup, who cares? 

 

Haha! Well, I'm not sure if I see Prime as Kirk. Maybe Hot Rod should have been that type of "Captain".  

But I actually wouldn't even be surprised if Prowl and Ratchet WERE based on Spock and Bones, as Budiansky's private joke. Although he was never quite played that way in any media I know of, if you read Ratchet's original long bio, you realize that his personality is EXACTLY McCoy, to the letter! I suppose it's possible that both characters were themselves just based on the same old Country Doctor archetype, but the similarities are striking.

Does that make Wheeljack Scotty, or is that just stretching the whole thing too far? Some may roll their eyes, but I think it's possible that Budiansky was drawing from pop culture for ideas. The Combaticons are pretty clearly the A-Team, for example.

  Kup's alright, but I do find him a poor replacement for Ironhide. However, I admit I have an unfair bias against most of the '86 movie/Season 3 characters.

zmog

 

I always saw Kup as the Tommy Lee Jones of the Transformers world.

 

actually being a airwolf fan, he reminded me of ernest borgnine.

 

Sorry boys, but when it comes to Kup, there is only one man he reminds me of:

 

Im sorry r lee ermey wouldnt be caught dead telling stories that go 'i remember the dust was so think u had to wear windshield wipers on ur optic sensors'

 

How 'bout Ed Asner?

 

Tommy lee jones fits with ironhide. He plaus grizzled characters that dont babysit rookies n is usually a confidant of the lead role guy. Tho id say ironhides a bigger sentimental.

 

By the time we got into Iacon,
We had eighty-five 'bots in all.
But they's a roadblock up on the cloverleaf,
And them 'cons was wall-to-wall.
Yeah, them Seekers is thick as scraplets on a bumper;
They had a hovertank in the air!
I says, "Callin' all 'bots, this here's the O.P.
"We about to go a-huntin' 'mecha-bear."

But I love the "roads scholar" idea!

I have to say I lean more towards Kup as the Ed Asner type. He's usually calm, composed, but always alert.

- Coeloptera

 

  Nice!

I'm just tired of Prime origins that involve magical wish-fulfilment transformations. Like, "Hey antisocial nerd/clueless kid! Wanna lead the Autobots? ALAKAZAM!! There ya go. Here's your matrix."

But the stories! Where are the stories?! Ed Asner seems more of the serious tight-lipped sort. He'll always be Lou Grant to me.  

zmog

 

Ah the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia! How else could to turn a character who's role was being an anchor for the main character (hot rod/rodimus prime) and was assigned an a-typical old grump personality.

Personally I'd like to think that perhaps Kup was once a great admirer of Alpha Trion (back when he was still the leader figure of the Cybertronians, and that the lessons he learned was the basis of what he passes on to the next generation.

As far as optimus' history goes, I always preferred a mix of his cartoon incarnation as a labor worker but with his comic name Optronix (because like Hot Rod it gives him a connection to his inevitable title of Optimus Prime). In the continuity in my head, Optronix worked for Kup as a laborer and freight runner and looked up to Sentinel Prime the same way Kup looked up to Alpha Trion and Hot Rod would look up to Optimus. That way you get a nice relationship tree like the Jedi in Star wars (Yoda - Count Dooku - Qui Gon Jinn - Obi Wan Kenobi - Anakin/Luke Skywalker).

Convoy -> Optimus just doesn't make sense to me from a phonetic standpoint. But that's just me.