Old fanboy evaluates new RiD

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by herugrim, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Wait what is this a real post.

    Wait what three people liked it.

    Am I dying? Is this a pre-death hallucination? What would you call Dinobot's near-suicide over his inability to live a predetermined life? Or Rattrap's blind hatred of Predacons, and Dinobot in particular, and eventual respect for him? Or Prowl's past as an impetuous rebel who becomes wise and enlightened? Optimus survivors guilt and leadership self doubts over Elita One? Armada Starscream? Cheetor? All these characters that have had depth, development, and evolution? What?

    I'm worried that my insomnia has rendered me incapable of seeing some kind of joke here and I'll feel the fool later on when it's explained to me but seriously I don't get it. That's not even to say that stagnant characters are a bad thing, plenty of characters exist who ever change but are still perfectly likeable, but saying no series has featured characters with history who developed?

    Mako Crab you liked that post yet immediately before you diligently and succinctly explained actual examples of character development. How I don't what?
     
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  2. SilverOptimus

    SilverOptimus Movie News Monster Moderator News Staff

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    I disagree with this statement though. Arcee’s character arc is a perfect example for Character Establishment and Development. The moment she comforted Miko stating "Funny, at first I thought I didn't get use to Cliff's constant chatter. Now there's nothing louder to me than the silence...", I felt huge respect towards the creators. It was an episode about teaching children to cope with loss.

    I do feel Transformers: Prime is underappreciated. A lot of good qualities of Transformers: Prime went unnoticed. I guess it’s TFP’s own fault as well.

    I feel like the characters of RID do not “grow”. Take Sideswipe for example: At the end of an episode he says he learned his lesson. But goes on to do the exact wrong thing on a following episode. Same can be said for most characters. The only character I see that has grown is Drift.

    RID is enjoyable. But it got “old” pretty fast to me. There were some really good jokes which had me in stitches in the early days of RID. Nowadays, not so much. RID is lot less darker than TFP. That seems to be the trend with cartoon shows these days. Recent examples being Ben10 and Teen Titans.

    During final days of Season 1 of RID, I got a chance to chat with a big name attached to the show. He stated that they’ve only planned for two seasons. May be kids liked the show, so they continued.

    There was a plan for a new show. Don’t really know what happened to it. Not sure if they abandoned it in favor of RID. You guys have no idea how much cool stuff Hasbro has planned but eventually went into the dustbin (mostly because of negative reactions to initial surveys). Just few hours ago I got a word that RID will indeed stay for 2017 (We already know about Combiner Force. So, that’s logical). Licensed merchandise is planned for 2018 as well (not sure about toys though). Rescue Bots is on hiatus (but discussions going on). I’ll update with new info on the front page in the coming days. Stay tuned.
     
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  3. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Except for the fact that it had no resolution whatsoever.

    See, Arcee's arc was about as wrong as it could be. Whatever messages could be gleaned from it were muddled in confusion and hypocricy. She didn't develope at all, she was just blindly angry any time Airachnid or Starscream were around, and disregarded anything in favour of her revenge which she never even got. Not only did this frequently cost the team advantages, she had the audacity to preach to others about vengeance as if she had somehow overcome it when she never did. Airachnid accidentally trapped herself and Arcee never mentioned it again, and she never had any resolution with Starscream.

    I've said it before, but I'll repeat it here for the sake of getting to the root of the problem: giving her two dead partners was beyond stupid. One, it completely cheapens Cliffjumper's death as the character we saw and had more attachment (as little as there was) to by retroactively making him dead partner #2. (Sure is convenient Tailgate was never mentioned when that happened like "oh no not again" or anything) But the biggest flaw was that the partner-murderer Arcee had the most trauma with was Airachnid, but the partner Arcee grieved most for was Cliffjumper. This created a disconnect between Arcees emotions because these two aspects of her character were so similar, yet entirely separate. It was redundant and made her seem like she herself was confused over who did what. What actually should've happened is that Airachnid and Tailgate should never have existed, and Arcee's vendetta should've been against Starscream. You know, the guy we actually saw murder Cliffjumper, the character we actually knew albeit briefly.

    But no, for reasons I cannot fathom, they doubled up on the angst with her and gave her two separate yet identical revenge subplots that felt totally interchangeable and cheapened each other so much the show never even bothered to properly resolve them. That is not good character development by any stretch.

    And see, that's the problem with revenge subplots. It's virtually impossible to do them right without the hero actually taking their revenge, which in this case would've meant Arcee killing both Starscream and Airachnid. Because if you really sell the pain and lust for revenge and get the audience on the heroes side, they're not going to want a pap resolution where they take the high road all of a sudden after so much hate and pursuit. It'll make it feel pointless and unsatisfying. But if you undersell the revenge plot, even though it'll make a pap resolution more tolerable, the audience won't care if the hero doesn't really. So you're stuck at an impass. And again, add a second identical revenge subplot that also can't be resolved, and you're left with nothing. You have the illusion of depth but in reality it's a trick of the eye betrayed the moment you try and dip your fingers in and you hit the bottom. They wanted to be dark, but couldn't go whole-hog and have Arcee murder them and then deal with the consequences. After all the pomp and puffing out its chest over how dark and mature it wanted to be, all the show did was reveal itself as a tame, riskless kids program that was all bark and no bite.

    EDIT: Wow I'm a wordy little brat tonight. Or is it this morning? (T _ T)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  4. SilverOptimus

    SilverOptimus Movie News Monster Moderator News Staff

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    That's exactly why I said TFP allowed its own faults to bog down good qualities it had. Speaking of which, another mistake they did with that is the fact that they allowed Bulkhead to come back. The impact would have been greater if Bulkhead stayed injured (poor Bulkhead, I know). That's the same mistake I'm seeing RID is doing. Allowing Optimus Prime to come back is a big mistake. It totally ruined his sacrifice at the end of TFP. I'm not seeing the suspense with RID. But I must admit the Starscream Arc felt like I was watching TFP again (especially the first couple of episodes).
     
  5. AirjitzuRonin

    AirjitzuRonin Well-Known Member

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    It would've been better for his argument if he explained why the plot is bad by discussing everything good and bad about it. In fact, this discussion is very imperative to the critique because just as he complained about RID15's characters, we have know knowledge of why he thinks of the plot the way he does. All we know is that he thinks the plot only appears at the end of certain episodes. This is a lie however as the filler is part of the recapture all criminals story and as for a main story, we see Optimus training, Steeljaw assembling his team, Megatronus coming back, most of Season 2 is a plot with things getting in full swing from S2Ep7, however #1 and 2 introduce Overload who will appear later, splits up the teams, and has Optimus loose his powers. #3 introduces Decepticon Island, #4 introduces Crazybolt and Slicedice who are revealed as Decepticon Islanders. I can go on forever about Season 2 but 2.5 is entirely story involved having the Bots learn about the Mini-Cons gradually before introducing Starscream.

    Either he didn't watch the show or was just lying to insult it, as fanboys usually do.
     
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  6. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee I must be some kind of nut...

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    +1ed just because of how much I agree with your analysis of Arcee's character.
     
  7. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    Hey there! Simple reason- while I disagree with his assessment that all TF fiction is devoid of character development, his post made me laugh.

    Plus, I remember the barren wasteland of Japanese TF toons like Headmasters & Energon, which I suffered through & prove the exception to the rule.

    But mostly I gave it a like cuz it got a chuckle out of me. :p 
     
  8. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I was going to post more about the lack of character establishment in TFP, but as I was typing I began to realize that we do know a decent amount about these characters: their personal likes & dislikes.

    I suppose then, that RID15 simply brings more attention to the characters' likes & dislikes than TFP did. For example, in TFP Knockout says that he likes to go to drive-in theaters and watch human movies. Cool. That's one of my favorite little details about him. But we never actually get to see him at a drive-in.

    Meanwhile, Bumblebee tells us in RID15 that Rear Axle is his favorite rock band & then we get to see him at one of their concerts (and how psyched he is to BE IN their concert).

    So in hindsight, the little bits of character establishment we got in TFP are likely easily forgotten because the bulk of them were delivered in dialogue instead of shown in actions.
     
  9. LynKey

    LynKey Well-Known Member

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    I would not call it an accident when Arcee pushed her in.
     
  10. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    Exactly and it's not like TFP's plots went anywhere. Sure, almost every episode had something that carried over to another episode, but that next episode would usually write it out, meaning nothing ever really went anywhere meaningful. They just stretched everything out into two-parters and mixed all their stories together and held off on showing the part twos, in a cheap trick to create the illusion of lager story lines. I really appreciate that RID15 doesn't pull that trick and just openly uses simple stories, without feeling the need to trick the audience into thinking there's more complex ones going on.
     
  11. AirjitzuRonin

    AirjitzuRonin Well-Known Member

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    Also, RID is able to take a plot and elaborate on it without having to rely on something oddball. Sure apturing Decepticon criminals became one criminal trying to build an army being influenced by a banished evil, splitting up to finish catching criminals became investigating an island full of those who remain free, and Scavengers with mysterious Mini-Cons became protecting these Mini-Cons from Starscream, but at least the way these plots become what they are is understandable, makes sense, and heck Megatronus crashed the Alchemor.

    Prime Season 1 has no plot until Unicron shows up because a prophecy said he would. No reason why he's coming back now and his goals seem to be unclear. Season 2 started out with the Iacon database however the Autobots don't learn about the Omega keys till later. I'm wandering if the Omega Key ploy even existed before the hiatus between Toxicity and Hurt. It feels like something they made to give the season a finale. All of the sudden, Megatron knows the location of dead Prime parts. This certainly would've helped him before but he didn't do anything with it. Smokescreen has an Omega Key inside him. You would think he would give off an energy reading but nope. His character arc sets up for so much but goes nowhere so it doesn't matter anyway but still. Season 3 counting Predacon's Rising or not is not a Season. It's three seasons stuck together. Episodes 1-4 and 10-13 barely relate o beast besides Predaking and the 3 arcs are connected in such dumb ways. Hell, if Shockwave was on Cybertron why didn't he help fight in Regeneration or Darkest Hour. Beast Hunters was even aired as 3 different 4-5 week episode airings bnecause the writers were just done. How come Shockwave didn't start collecting these bones as soon as he returned. Why was it called Beast Hunters.
     

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