Old Beast Wars Gimics...

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by SaberPrime, May 1, 2010.

  1. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    So... I was just looking at my 10th Aniversary Primal, the one that was remolded from his original toy to look more show accurate.

    Even as a more accurate toy there are still some gimics that just don't work.

    For starters the Prime Jets are obstructed by his monkey butt. He was able to use his shoulder cannons to fly in the cartoon, not so in the toy.

    Then we have his gun. In the cartoon the gun was actully sideways from how it appears on the toy. Not a big issue but I really don't like how the gun pops out of his arm because you have to hold his arm to make him look like he's holding it as apposed to having a gun that just broke his arm.

    The weirdest gimic is one that thankfully never ever appeared on the show. His skull mace. It looks like something a Predacon would use not something the leader of the Maximals would have. When they were remolding this toy didn't anyone think to get rid of or at least remold this weapon so it doesn't look like a demon skull.

    With Megatron the only really odd gimic is his tail arm. On the cartoon he was able to take that off and had a visable hand hand holding it as a weapon. The gimic on the toy does not work well, hinders the transformation, and takes his hand away.

    The only gimic that these figures really lost was their extra faces as the heads were remolded to be more show accurate.

    The Transmetals and beyond were much more show accurate. It's just thoughs first season toys that really never fit with the show. But this is mostly about Primal's skull mace. What other Beast Wars gimics were there that not only didn't match what was seen on the show but don't even fit the character useing them.
     
  2. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    The Primal toy (and really, every first-wave Beast Wars toy) was designed long before the show actually began production. Hence, these gimmicks were removed or changed to fit the show. The Primal toy was never designed to have a jetpack. (and indeed doesn't) Likewise, Megatron was not supposed to have any hands. But the show required at least one.

    The chief reason for the gimmicks' existence is to give more bang for the buyer's buck. However in the show more gimmicks meant more modelling, rendering, time and money. And so most never made it into the show. (much like the dropped mutant heads/battle masks idea)

    As for the skull mace: The Beast Wars figures were orginally meant to be very primal and beastly, hence the mutant masks, and details like Cheetor's gut-gun, Dinobot's boney legs, Rattrap's brain or Primal's mace. However, again, the show changed this to an extent.


    If you want good show-accurate versions, get the (admittedly smaller) Telemocha deluxe-sized versions. They feature/lack the things you prefer/dislike, such as a jetpack for Primal, hand for Megatron, etc.
     
  3. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    for the most part, i always preferred the toy version, to the show version though. the toys just looked way cooler. especially the original primal ape, the black fur, the arm canon, and shoulder canon's, the swords, and the mace, it's loaded with gimmicks that makes it fun. not to mention the mask face, so if you were to buy the tfu1 version, you could have it a totally different character on display, and even make it a predicon, pretty awesome. if you ask me.

    the beast heads was something i liked about the original's, they allowed the same mold, to be two different characters, with two different heads. which i liked. :) 
     
  4. Lbsammills51

    Lbsammills51 Well-Known Member

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    I actually like the skull mace. I wouldn't mind Megs having a left hand, but oh well.
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Quite right about the beast-heas, Dolza. Case in point, Tarantulas and Blackarachnia, and to a slightly more obscure extent, Waspinator and Buzzsaw.
     
  6. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Except for the fact that Buzzsaw never appeared on the show... and I kinda always wanted Buzzsaw to be a Beast Wars Bumblebee.

    Anyway, I understand that the toys came out before the show but technically I'm talking about toys that came out 10 years after the show first aired. Being that they were given remolded heads and better paint apps than the original toys. As long as they were making the toys more show accurate anyway why didn't they fix some of the gimics? It wouldn't take much to fix Megatron, just remolding one arm. Primal would be a bit harder. The least they could do is take out the spring loaded arm so his hand can stay up when the gun is out and remold the mace so it doesn't look like a demon skull.

    Also you need to remember that more gimics does not always make a better toy. All of the gimics that I'm complaining about don't even work very well. They would be great show accurate or not if they actually worked. The mace for example is a pain to get in and out of it's little storage space in Primal's arm.
     
  7. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Nope.

    remold that arm. remold tail. rework claw gimmick, or remove it. modify transformation to fit the changes, since the claw gimmick is actually part of the transformation. it would have been a massive effort.

    Without the spring, the arm becomes floppy. so the whole arm would have to be re-engineered.

    remolds of any kind are expensive. that's why they're usually limited to heads.
     
  8. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    No it wouldn't. It literally would just remolding the arm. The tail itself already has a "handle" that the hand could hold onto as part of the gimic. Removeing the tail as is from the rest of the arm would dissable the gimic which doesn't work right anyway.

    And changeing the arm would not effect the trasfromation of the rest of the toy. The only transformation aspect that would be different is the arm and tail alone.

    You talk as if the entire toy would have to be redesigned around that one arm but the arm alone does not effect the rest of the toy. Primal's beast face is part of his transformation, did they redesign his entire toy around that one little bit, heck no. And yes Primal's Beast head was remolded from the original version. Megatron's beast head however just got new paint apps.
     
  9. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    The arm is floppy with the spring so it really wouldn't make a difference would it. Just replace the spring loaded joint with a ratcheted joint.

    Heck I could probly do the modifications myself if I had the parts and was any good at molding things. (by that I mean anything not just plastic, not very artistic in that way. I could make the parts work but it'd look like crap.)
     
  10. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Arm would change shape. arm wouldnt have cutout parts for the black pieces the tail mounts to. claw gimmick would have to be removed or re-engineered as a result. seriously. look at it. even if you just remove it, there would have to be a lot of remolding.

    No. just most of the tail, the gimmick attached to it, and the arm itself.

    Because of how that piece transforms, it didnt need any modification. it's very simple.

    That's not a simple change at all! adding a ratchet joint there would call for heavy remolding and several new parts.

    they werent intended to be entirely new figures. just slightly modified versions of the original. you want a more modern design, get the robot masters molds.
     
  11. Dolza_Khyron

    Dolza_Khyron Well-Known Member

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    yes. and like that megatron, and the trecks version, *red version* just close the "head" and it's a different character. OR it's a battle mask lol one could say.

    i like the small gimmicks like that. it's the gimmicks that a toy is BUILT around that ruins it, like minicon's for example, *mostly minicon ports, or cyber key ports, or energon "powerlinx ports, for example* all ruin the toy, by making the toy designed around it.

    instead of like beast wars, where for the most part the gimmick was just there, to make the toy a little more fun.

    like waspinator's two heads. the beast head looks better for wasp, and the buzzsaw looks MUCH better with the robot head.

    and also, there is the mantis' gimmick, i LOVE those launching disk things, not really launching themselves, but they just look so neat with them inside the chambers, especially in robot mode.

    and then there was the small tiny gimmicks, like the transmetal's "third" mode's. or transmetal two's, "spark" crystal. which i wished transformers of today still had, rather then just painted on autobot symbols. and TM2's megatron's neck is always cool to play with.

    beast wars were pretty amazing toys in my opinion. and they had some of the best gimmicks too. :) 

    even had a few combiners, as well. after all. :) 
     
  12. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    I would like to add for those thinking about the Robot Masters Primal and Megatron, or their Telemocha reuses, they are also more in scale with the other Maximals. RM Primal is about the right height relative to Rhinox and Dinobot, they make for an excellent group shot.

    Ultimately, the reason the bigger ones were not remolded more extensively than just the heads was cost. Remolding heads is relatively easy, the designers just have to make sure that the heads fit into the "box" of free space where the original went. Remolding arms is a much trickier proposition, I seem to recall seeing Hasbro mention one time that simply switching about body panels is complicated, but that then getting new mechanisms added is even more complex.

    Not necessarily expensive, just complicated and time consuming.


    For all your show accurate needs, go with the smaller ones from Robot Masters or Telemocha. They're excellent little toys.
     
  13. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    No, but he appeared in comics and got homaged in Cybertron.

    Also, Valkysas is right. You'd have to remould almost the entire left-arm of Megatron, tail included. The gimmick is just too extensively worked into there.

    And seriously, especially for guys like Prime, the shear cost and effort it would take to remould him to be accurate in all the areas you said, would be not be anywhere near cost-effective.

    Not even close.

    The gimmick is worked into the transformation. Pushing the tail in unfolds the claw to make the back. That entire mechanism would have to be removed and the component parts totally retooled to work.

    You over-estimate the purpose of those reissues. They're not meant to be wholey show-accurate (for that Primal's back kibble would have to fold up and disappear, and Megatron wouldn't have been given that awful new head) but merely reissues with slightlly more accurate heads. (which are the important parts, really)
     
  14. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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  16. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    Oh alright then. :dunce 

    :D 
     
  17. Abrogate

    Abrogate Nondescript Former Poster

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    I don't care if the skull-mace is appropriate to Primal's character, it's one of the things that sold me on the toy.

    Also, I was hoping this thread was gonna be about the fact that the old toys had squirt guns and stuff. G2 type gimmicks that carried over.
     
  18. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    I don't have alot of the original toys. Were there other characters who had squirt guns besides Megatron?

    Back to the arm issue...

    That's what I said to begin with but you responded saying it wouldn't be that simple, that the entire toy would have to be redesigned around the new arm. And here's another one saying the same thing.

    The tail alone does not effect the entire transformation of the toy. I can transform the rest of Megatron without even transforming the arm and tail. In fact I have to do that anyway because it's just easier to leave the tail out as the last part because the gimic hinders part of the transformation.

    Remolding that arm would not only make him more show accurate but would also help his transformation not needing to rely on a gimic that doesn't work to open and close his claw.

    I don't even use the gimic on mine to transform him because it never worked to begin with. Insted I just force the claw into position. It basically acts as a ratcheted joint when you force it and doesn't damage the toy.

    Seriously though, I've look at this guy, I've played with him. I bought the original toy off e-bay before about a year before the reissues came out. The one I got off e-bay is missing parts anyway, I could use him as a test dumby, take his arm apart and fix it myself in about an hour. It'll take me longer just to find a screw driver than it will to work on his arm. The only thing I can't do is mold something that actually looks like a hand. But I can at least dissable the gimic and fix the arm so that the tail is detachable just to prove how freaking easy it is and that the transformation will not be effected by it.

    Now where's that damn screw driver...
     
  19. Soulmaster

    Soulmaster Well-Known Member

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    I remember Torca's fin, Quickstrike's cobra head, Cheetor and Tigatron gut's gun, Cohrada's gun and Jetstorm's robot head
     
  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    No, but still part of it.

    I'm not disagreeing that a remoulded left arm would be a good thing. It'd kick ass, but it's not easy to do, and not cost-effective. And at this point, with all the BWX reissues come and gone, less and less likely to happen.
     

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