okay, i'm starting to buy the Primus/Unicron origins myth...

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Cryptwire, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    i've been doing a lot of thinking about this, especially upon reading "Transformers: Exodus" and i think i can buy it. it's just that i would prefer Primus to be an entirely separate entity rather than being Cybertron itself.

    it seems to me that the Cybertronians are energy beings, so they would naturally be "energon-based" organisms, which i think is another interesting angle to the origins of Cybertronians.

    i still yet to buy the Well of Allsparks angle as to how the Cybertronians are born. (there is only one source from which the Cybertronians are born??).

    as for the Quintessons, i would go for the back story that they invaded Cybertron and they were lying when they kept insisting that they made the Cybertronians.
     
  2. SentinelPrime

    SentinelPrime I NEEDED THAT!

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    Personally I don't like mysticism mixed in with my TFs. I like my TFs to be religion free, just a planet of robots where AI went rogue like Skynet and this is the result millions of years later. I'm fine with the Quint production line concept. I think of Primus as a being formed from millions of years of the independent AI running rampant and mechanical terraforming. I don't want the planet formers being literal Gods. Just my personal thoughts. I'm fine with the TFs having a religion so to speak, but I want it to just be stuff they made up and it's all still just technological until Beast Wars.

    Unicron can simply be another planet where the Quints did the same thing. Maybe Primacron or whoever came along after the fact and woke him up.
     
  3. Auto Morph

    Auto Morph Gimmick Bot

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    I generally subscribe to the G1 Marvel comics version of the Unicron and Primus story. I definitely stop short of the G2 comics interpretation of how Transformers 'procreate' (all that messy splitting/dividing up of the original TF). That to me is more of a grey area which my brain has to cobble together bits from the cartoon matrix, movieverse Allspark and the Beast Era protoforms.

    To me the Allspark and the Matrix are one and the same thing, depending on which universe you're in at the time. Essentially they are both macguffins for power and procreation and a source of life in general.
    However, the matrix does differ in that it supposedly contains the essence of Primus (comics) or the combined wisdom of the Autobot leaders (cartoon) depending on what is more to your taste. I'm happy with either, but I guess if you're going to go all out with the Unicron/Primus origin, then I guess by default you kinda have to bolt on the 'matrix-is-Primus' issue as well.

    That's how I reconcile the whole thing anyway. I'd be interested to hear how others interpret it all. I guess if you like you can cherry pick the bits of the various origin stories you like best and find a way to fit them all together coherently.
     
  4. Sideswipe80

    Sideswipe80 Well-Known Member

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    I hate the whole Primus/Unicron thing. It takes away from the civil war aspect of Autobots vs. Decepticons. We don't need gods in Transformers. I prefer the quint origin.
     
  5. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    thanks guys for your inputs and they are welcome. this is just something i've been thinking through after discussing with various posters here and reading the Exodus novel. it seems there is something into the Primus story that i haven't seen before. i always love some superstition and mystery in my stories so i guess that's why i'm leaning more into the Primus/Unicron myth and would very soon integrate it with my fan fiction which would be another overhaul lol.
     
  6. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's not like their bodies have to be brought to one LOCATION, or anything. I think you may be looking at the Well of All Sparks a bit wrong - yeah, it's the place where sparks came from in the first place (as it was introduced in Dreamwave's comics - I haven't read Exodus yet, is it mentioned in there?), but it's just one of many links to the TRUE source of life, the "afterlife", what Beast Machines called the "Allspark". Vector Sigma, the Matrix, the movie and Animated's Allspark... these things link to this interdimensional realm from which sparks come, and to which they return after death. The Transformers' "great beyond," if you will. Heck, in Animated, they actually call that beyond-realm "The Well of All Sparks" (since they have a physical object called the AllSpark). THAT's the "one source" life comes from - the beyond. The unquantifiable. Not just some room with a nozzle in it that says "Sparks from here".
     
  7. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    ahh... hmm... interesting. i havent really followed the BW/BM incarnations of Transformers but this sounds intriguing. when i thought about the Well of Allsparks, i was actually thinking of a literal well lol. i would do more research on this. now your info is much better, and i'm thinking about it now the way i started thinking when another poster on here gave me interesting info about Primus/Unicron myth based on the IDW story. thanks for the info.
     
  8. theestampede

    theestampede Wandering Artist

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    I hate the religion thing as well. I've alway thought of it as similar to in 2001: space odyssey and its found in a lot of older sci-fi novels, where they explain the evolutionary cycle of all species; first the species starts as organic, then once they begin to get advanced enough they start replacing worn out body parts, eventually the species as a whole sheds their organic bodies replacing them with robotics. After that they keep evolving, turning their own bodies into vehicles or other things, and they keep changning till the final point where the species drops the use of bodies altogether and become beings of pure energy. The whole process just takes a really long time and Autobot/Decepticons are only midway though.
     
  9. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

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    No problem! For further reading, check out Sparks and the Allspark. That might help you understand the complex mechanics of how TF life works as best we understand it!
     
  10. ectoneon

    ectoneon Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really sure where I stand on it now. I mean when I was younger, I was all about transformers having "gods" Primus and unicron was an epic concept to me. I also liked the Idea of sparks as beast wars made them. It was a perfect explanation as to how some characters could get blown apart all the time and survive while others died. It also helped put limits on why you couldn't just copy a transformer and "clone" an army of them. I dunno, the more I think about it lately the more I prefer other origins. I have come to realize the whole primus thing as kinda dumb. I mean Primus created them, and they have free will, but ultimately they only exist to fight unicron. It kinda cheapens things in a way. I guess my current veiws are kinda an amalgamation. Because I still like the sparks concept. Maybee more towards the beast machines side of things. With the "allspark" being the place where they go when they die-but not necessarily one super-god being. I liked it in beast machines when the allspark would speak as a sort of hive-mind type thing, and not just be one voice. So i guess my current viewpoint is the opposite of yours.
     
  11. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

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    I could go into what I think but I get the michael taken out of me enough for posting novels as it is. but I do disagree with some aspects of the new blended continuity - I think in some places it's left stuff out that adds to the flavor and in some places made the wrong choices.
     
  12. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

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    You shouldn't be worried about having your opinion disrespected. This is an open forum. If people disagree with you, that's fine. Anyone who becomes insulting should just be ignored.

    Personally, I love the Unicron/Primus element. The Furman run on Marvel US was fantastic. Considering how most of us love the 86 movie and he blatantly went on to ignore it after wonderfully embellishing the mythology said movie provided in his equally excellent UK comics, and us UK fans still loved his US stuff, goes someway to showing how great the religion stuff could be.

    It really added dramatic weight to the series, elevating it beyond any cartoon at the time. Though I never liked the Quintesson origin in the cartoon, I loved how the Universe comics reconciled both into a single whole. That said, Primus is better portrayed as little as possible or he loses his mystique.
     
  13. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    I tend to go with combo-platter origins and beliefs, and that both basis of origin can be merged. My basic idea is that Primus and Unicron are there, but have limited influence on the corporeal universe. and steer the actions of other beings (Quintessons or Primacron) to acheive their goals. Primus and Unicron themselves don't even necessarily have to be gods either, and instead take the Star-Trekky approach that most supernatural beings are just far-advanced people/aliens.
     
  14. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    From what I can read from your posts, you pretty much hate anything that is not copy pasted from the G1 cartoon.

    Personally I always thoughts the Quintesson origins was silly, but I donĀ“t hate it, I just ignore it. And how does the Unicron/Primus takes away from the Civil War?
     
  15. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Myself, I like the idea of there being things beyond Transformer comprehension that might be considered "godlike", although I prefer to stop short of having them be literal deities. I personally prefer to go along the lines that they could be manifestations of the universe's own will, the Fleer trading cards origin.

    Though I also agree with the fundamental idea of keeping them mythical and not showing too much. I really like how Exodus handles the subject - their existence is doubted. They are right on the fringes of understanding - that's where I feel that they belong.

    Yes, it's a minor plot point. Seems to be presented more as a physical location, but it's a little inconsistent.

    Just report 'em and us staff guys will take care of it. By all means ignore them - but let us know we've got a job to do.
     
  16. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    Personally I hate the quint origin but I don't like the gods one much either, I've always thoughts of it as somethign likes sparks evolved, the quints turned up, turned that panet into a factory and used the sparks to power their robots, the sparks grew more inteligent over time rebelled and took back there now forever altered plannet hin their robot bodies. Primus and Unicron somethign the quints made to see how power they could make sparks and what kind of weapons they could become, both getting completly out of there control.
     
  17. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

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    I like the comic origin with Primus and Unicron. Mainly because I hate the Quintesson backstory, and the idiotic idea that a space monkey created the Gigantic Unicron. Both cartoon and comic origins could easily be connected though.
     
  18. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    The Quints are just badly designed space aliens. I dislike everything about them. Honestly I would prefer a new origin story, since Unicron/Primus is getting just as grating.
     
  19. antapp

    antapp Well-Known Member

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    With comics the main media in the UK when growing up, I subscribe to the Primus/Unicron theory much easier than the TV version.

    Especially when a small creature in a spacesuit just happened to build a planet sized robot!!! That WAS stupid.
     
  20. Moonscream

    Moonscream YES, We EXIST!

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    I've always considered Unicron to be like Galactus - a force of nature (the point aside that they can also both be done in by tiny items! :lol  ). A necessary force of destruction that's the balance of creation. Primus, again to me, is something of a specialized creation deity, primarily creating robotic worlds with Cybertron the most advanced and perhaps one of few remaining, tho that doesn't mean he's necessarily entirely corporeal. I don't see him AS Cybertron...tho that Primus toy was really neat and perhaps Cybertron itself IS a robot or was later modified by the Quints into one...just not Primus. The Quints I see as opportunists who came upon a planet and a people who weren't self aware yet that they could exploit as 'just robots/not really alive'.

    Furman's origins (and the whole budding thing) never sat 'right' with me, other than that it would make sense that both 'gods' would have had a shared origin if they're meant to be a yin-yang duo.

    --Moony
     

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