Normal People living in Marvel 616 are INSANE.

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by Hiro Prime, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. Hiro Prime

    Hiro Prime Cybertronian Guru Veteran

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    Hi all.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but after reading marvel comics for 35 years, I have come to a startling conclusion... normal people living in the Marvel 616 universe are insane.

    This topic stems from a discussion I had with Draco Nomicon in my shop today about what it would be like to live on 616 Earth. Particularly, living in New York City. After naming every event for the last seven years and realizing that seven years in our world is less than two in the 616 universe, one can quickly see just how much crap a standard New Yorker would have to deal with.

    Then this question came up... Why would anyone still want to live in New York City? After two alien invasions, I wouldn't care if I was destitute, I would walk away from NYC. I would say I'd find some place in the mid west to live, but hey look, Asgard just popped up in Kansas. And after thinking about it a little more, we couldn't find one safe place to live in the US in 616.

    I can see why most kids in the 616 would want super powers, they aren't wanting to emulate their heroes, they want the powers to survive. Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but think about how all of that crap happening in our own world. Colorado has a prison where a lot of these super villains are held until the next breakout occurs. And God help you if you live in San Francisco right now.

    Hell, I had to wonder why anyone who had no powers would commit a crime in any city in 616. Especially NYC. Nevermind getting strung up on a lamppost by Spider-Man's webbing, what criminal in their right mind would risk becoming Punisher victim #4,751?

    So what do you guys think?
     
  2. MECHADOOM

    MECHADOOM I'm Doombot and I know it

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    Not being given a choice as to which universe they were born into, the normal humans on 616 earth just do what we all do: play the hand that fate dealt them.
     
  3. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    616 has long since run its course. The creative teams running it, unfortunately, have yet to realize this.
     
  4. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Veteran

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    I completely agree. I think Marvel even made fun of it but I can't remember which book. Maybe Ant-Man. They talked about insurance rates in NYC alone.

    But anywhere can be a problem. Chicago was the site where Siege began. Seattle was where Iron Man shacked up for a while, the X-Men have ruined San Fran, Asgard messed up Arkansas. Brother Voodoo has New Orleans covered. Technically the 50 State Initiative has made every place a problem for normal people.
     
  5. Mr. Sinister

    Mr. Sinister Cat + Sinister = TROUBLE

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    If the 616 denizens are insane, then whoever voluntarily chooses to live in Gotham freaking City is downright clinically suicidal.
     
  6. Draco Nomicon

    Draco Nomicon Active Member

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    Honestly I gave up on Marvel 616 back during siege when I realized that there were like 4 or 5 distinct crises going on at once. In fact until siege I never needed to KNOW the plural of crisis. We had Siege going on at the tail end of the whole Dark Reign thing, The X-men were dealing with that whole Necrosha thing, a group of baddies was declaring all out war on the multiple Hulks (and for some reason felt that it was good to make two more of them in the process) and Daredevil went insane an became the biggest crime-lord that New York has ever seen. That would've the perfect time for Punisher to shine, except he was distraced with the fact that someone had turned him into fracking FRANKENSTEIN! And let's not forget Annihilation, which those on earth were completely oblivious to with everything else that was going on. The Earth was in danger of getting utterly destroyed and noone on the planet even had a clue.

    If I were a hero in 616 I'd be going to Reed Richards and telling him to send me somewhere else.
     
  7. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    I just pretend that every single city and town and not just NYC in 616 is plagued by supervillains.
     
  8. rob_charb

    rob_charb Well-Known Member

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    Not to sound like a noob, but why is it called the 616 universe? Any particular reason?

    Maybe good ole Canada would be a safe place to live?
     
  9. Draco Nomicon

    Draco Nomicon Active Member

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    In Marvel every alternate universe is given a number designation, most are never seen, save for a random throwaway storyline in the exiles or when they need a simple plot device for some such thing. The primary universe in which most of the stuff happens is #616,

    Oh no, Canada is where the most random, pointless and generally brutal violence happens.
     
  10. Scantron

    Scantron Well-Known Member

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    I would assume that it's just what the citizens have gotten used to, sort of one of the hazards of living in the city. And, to echo Wreckgar's post, where else would a person go? We don't see them often, since the stories focus so much on NYC, but presumably every major city in the US probably has at least some level of super-powered mayhem. Every other country is probably the same, with their own supervillains and superheroes trading blows with them.

    And, even if a citizen did move to an area with little to no super-powered presence, that's not necessarily a guarantee of safety, since there's no telling when some supervillain is going to decide to set up shop because there aren't any superheroes. It also doesn't help that there are a significant number of super-powered nuts who might just decide to attack your city out-of-the-blue for some reason an average citizen couldn't know about. To use a DC example, part of the reason Coast City was destroyed is because it was the hometown of a super-powered lunatic's dead wife and he wanted to erase her memory. Hard for the average joe to control for that in their re-location plans.

    Now, there are one group of normal people in the superhero universes who I do think are insane, and that's street-level police. I mean, they have all the hazards of police work in the real world, plus the possibility of having to deal with super-powered crime. It's probably bad enough going out on a fairly routine call and having to worry about whether a suspect will pull out a gun, imagine going out on a fairly routine call and having to worry that the suspect could have the power to vaporize you with a glance. Plus, most street-level cops in the superhero universes seem woefully under-equipped to deal with super-powered threats. Unless [superhero] shows up, they're basically screwed and police seem to end up as casualties in supervillain rampages. Add to that the possibility that someone you arrested or helped convict could show up months or years later with superpowers and want revenge on you. I can't see why anyone would want to be a street-level cop or why the police unions wouldn't be in open revolt over the hazardous working conditions.

    From what I've read, there are two versions of how the main Marvel Universe came be "Earth-616":

    - Alan Moore chose the number at random, with no real reason behind it.
    - Dave Thorpe, another Marvel UK writer, picked it because he didn't care for the superhero genre and "616" is an alternate interpretation of the Number of the Beast.
     
  11. ILoveDinobot

    ILoveDinobot Arise Rodimus Prime

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    If you want to really get deep you can say well why would people still live in Louisiana or Mississippi (wherever that flood was a few years ago)? Why would people still live in NYC after 9/11? Why do people still live in Japan if there are Tsunami's?

    My real answer is maybe in 616 NYC real estate is REALLY cheap because of constant invasions and attacks :lol . Maybe some people are thrill seekers?
     
  12. Blitz Wing

    Blitz Wing Triple Threat

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    I love living in the real Canada. But in the 616 Universe, I wouldn't want my only line of defence against Super Villains to be Alpha Flight!
     
  13. Mr. Sinister

    Mr. Sinister Cat + Sinister = TROUBLE

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    Mainly because they're dead.
     
  14. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Wait, we are talking about a fictional universe where super-heroes come and go like a Taco Bell at 2 am, right?

    If so, then sign me up for crazy.
     
  15. The Spider

    The Spider Well-Known Member

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    Actually they're not dead anymore. They just came back recently due to the Chaos War.
     
  16. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

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    Let's compare Super Soldier projects, shall we?

    America produced but a single successful subject before Prof. Erskine was assassinated. That subject, Captain America, is the peak of human perfection, completely sane, and continues to fight for the principles of his nation to this very day in a noble, inspirational, and highly capable fashion. The unique piece of equipment he was given also performs spectacularly and is like unto a part of him.

    Canada, on the other hand, produces a stream of frothing maniacs whose first actions after being subjected to the process tend to be something akin to slaughtering most of the lab technicians and then running off naked and howling into the Canadian wilderness. Only after retrieval efforts succeed (at high cost in manpower and resources) do these bitter, resentful, and barely sane man-monsters work for the secret government project for a while before going AWOL again, killing even more personnel upon their inevitable escape, then draining even more resources in failed capture attempts while they murder their way across the world.
    Even the most successful subject: Wolverine, is often a barely-controlled berserker with a shattered mind who is responsible for numerous deaths, including multiple innocents.

    Way to go Canada! Man, you couldn't even utilize USAgent properly.

    What I think is insane about 616 is the level of self-endangering resentment and hatred that Mr. and Mrs. Average 616 have for not only superhumans, but anyone in a costume who tries to help anyone for any reason.

    The hair-splitting is also nuts. Okay, they hate them some muties. But those same mutant-haters tend not to lump in mutates regardless of the high power levels many of those exhibit. So a mutant-hater loathes say...Storm...for being born a mutant, but might also laud the Thing for being a great hero. Buh?

    Or they might lump in powered heroes like Justice with normal humans like Hawkeye. Remember when they tried to register all "costumed heroes"? How does that apply to Hawkeye? He's just a capable guy. His ID is publicly known. It is literally like registering someone for pulling someone out of a burning car because they were helping people while not being a cop or fire fighter.

    The seething hatred the Average 616 Family has for anyone trying to aid them sometimes goes to such ludicrous levels I'd occasionally expect to see a ring of angry citizens barring a fire truck from reaching a burning building and throwing bricks at it because "We don't need your fancy help! You take your gadgets and expensive truck, get the hell out of here, and let us normal people handle our own problems!"

    And no matter how obvious a supervillain is about causing mayhem and killing people, the average citizens' anger inevitably turns towards the heroes. Carnage rampages through the streets, randomly butchering people in plain sight, then Spider-Man tackles him, beats him into submission, taking numerous injuries in the process, and after webbing him up for the legal authorities (important point), some Mr. Average 616 inevitably essentially goes: "He's saved us all! - GET HIM!!!"

    Nobody ever seems to call for the mass exile of villains in 616, or has them labeled terrorists in numbers. Seems to me the average 616 dweller has some sort of psychosis related to being helped in any situation they cannot wholly cope with on their own.

    Must make tutoring someone a challenge...
    - Coeloptera
     
  17. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Aside from September 11, most places that are prone to natural disasters tend to plan for them and include their occurrence in the engineering and planning parts of building the city.

    Supervillains on the other hand have this irritating notion of being random, whimsical lunatics who'd obliterate Iowa for shits and giggles one day, and then somewhere like Kuala Lumpur tomorrow.

    At some point you just give up and try living where you are, after all, the hot spots tend to have the best superhero protection.
     
  18. Wreckgar

    Wreckgar Anthony Stark Veteran

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    On the bright side, how fun would it be to live in 616 NYC and have J Jonah Jameson as your mayor? I'd love to see a Spider Slayer tax line on my check every week
     
  19. lars573

    lars573 Well-Known Member

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    And yet the weapon X program fits right in with cold war era Canadian military projects.
     
  20. Lunar Archivist

    Lunar Archivist Well-Known Member

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    That's what you get for voting someone with a Hitler mustache into public office. :) 
     

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