No More PayPal Gift Payments

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Asterios, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Asterios

    Asterios Well-Known Member

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    I will no longer send PayPal payments as gifts

    I'm sorry to say but got a nasty call from PayPal due to the large amounts of "Gift payments" i've made lately, they threatened to shut my account down for fee avoidance and even said they are going to be watching all accounts involved with the "Gift payments", so I will no longer be making anymore gift payments, so for those of you who only accept PayPal money that way you've lost my business, sorry for this.
     
  2. NICKBOT

    NICKBOT Entitlement? Piss off.

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    Can I ask what was so nasty about the phone call?
     
  3. swbruni

    swbruni Well-Known Member

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    They are loseing big money from gift payments , soon Gift will be Gone....
     
  4. TrueNomadSkies

    TrueNomadSkies Airachnid's ratservant

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    Honestly, and at the risk of sounding like a dick here (that's definitely not my intention), I've always found it kinda shady for people to request (let alone require) buyers to pay through gift options or pay for their seller fees because not only is it in violation of Paypal's terms of service, but it pretty much screams "I'm not accountable for my business" & "I have no problem exposing you to paypal fraud" to people who're less accustom to the forum & whatnot. Like, I feel it's one thing for buyers to do it as a form of courtesy or whatever (I've done it myself with people I've trusted without running into problems by way of gifting for toys) and its not really a shocker to me because I know how all of this rolls, but the fact that listing these kind of requirements is widely condoned to the point of becoming a sort of norm still baffles me at least a little, even when it comes to what's largely a global collective of fans oppose to a traditional business market.

    Granted, I know there's a lot more to this, but still. Every time I see the whole "I only accept gift payments or you pay my fees", I just wanna shake my head because all it takes is one bitter/malicious person to keep records and cause a lot of problems that could've otherwise been avoided.


    /2cents
     
  5. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    I never use Gift. I either chuck in a couple of bucks extra to cover the fees, or if you're a good friend I'll send it as a personal payment owed so I pay the fees. It's rarely more than a couple of bucks either way, so that doesn't bother me. I probably waste more on silly things like another repaint in the G1 Smokescreen deco or something.
     
  6. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    I think the thread title is misleading. You only have to worry if you make a lot of gift payments. And how many of those are legitimate gifts? Paying for stuff you've bought by using the gift option means it isn't actually a gift, it's a business transaction. It's not like the gift payment option is being removed from service. Just sounds like Paypal are going to be making more of an effort to spot people abusing that option. If I was them I'd be doing that same thing.
     
  7. TrueNomadSkies

    TrueNomadSkies Airachnid's ratservant

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    Well, I think the OP worded it to the point of him not paying people via gifts, but you're right. When I saw it I thought there was a major news, and then I read that it was just him being audited or whatever.


    Also to Sol, is there really such a thing as "wasting" money on a G1 Smokescreen repaint?
     
  8. Hook

    Hook Out of Options Veteran

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    I agree completely. When someone wants a gifted PayPal payment, I send a regular payment, plus 5%, which is more than enough to cover PayPal's fees.
     
  9. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood Prototype Black

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    I give people the option of either (A) paying the "gift" option, or (B) tacking on the additional % that's taken away from fees. Sometimes, I'm cool if they go with neither.

    I know it's against policy, but those fees add up over time. I'm already allocating the money I make from certain sales to handle S&H, so I'm already taking a small loss, which I know will garner very little sympathy from people but still.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  10. Knightdramon

    Knightdramon Hasbro LIES to the US

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    Also, payments via paypal credit [money you already have in paypal from sales on your own] have no fees on it.

    And yes, this entire gift idea was abused waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on these forums particularly. On most other forums with B\S\T sections they avoided it due to how expensive the merchandise is and how there's no coverage from paypal for gifts.

    I swear, this "payment by gift ONLY" thing is becoming the next "ship only within USA" thing.
     
  11. donnyfinkleberg

    donnyfinkleberg Member

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    Hi, i've got a question on this - as i'm in the UK, if i buy from someone based overseas i'll sometimes offer to send the money as a gift, not because of the fees but because of the way paypal deals with disputes. A lot of sellers now quite reasonably don't want to ship internationally via any method that isn't fully insured and tracked because without those services, Paypal invariably finds in favour of the buyer in a dispute regardless of what's actually happened to the item (ie lost in post, actually arrived but buyer is trying it on, etc.) For low-cost items from folks with good feedback, i'm better off taking my chances and sending the money as a gift than paying out for very expensive shipping.

    So - to get to the point - if i send money as "personal payment owed", how does that affect the dispute resolution situation outlined above? Or is there an alternative method of 'waiving' buyer's rights to arbitration?
     
  12. TFW10

    TFW10 Well-Known Member

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    I've never used "gift" on paypal.
     
  13. Asterios

    Asterios Well-Known Member

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    the caller made me think I was the one commiting fraud.
     
  14. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Aren't you essentially kinda though? This:
    doesn't read like someone annoyed they're no longer to able give people a nice gift of cash. Reads like you're talking about buying stuff from people. Which isn't what the gift option is for. If the money you're transferring via PayPal is in return for an item you've purchased from someone then it isn't a gift and you should't be using the gift option. So you've really not got any right to be annoyed just because the system has finally caught up with you for mis-using it.
    I admit I have limited PayPal experience but general common sense deems cash transferred in the case of buying and selling shouldn't be classed as a gift.

    Was the phonecall from PayPal 'nasty' because they were being actually horrible and unkind to you or did you consider it 'nasty' simply because it sounds like you're going to have to stick to their rules now?
     
  15. moreprimeland

    moreprimeland Optimus told me to do it! Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    ^^^^ All of which is true, but there's tons of folks on here who always want GIFT payments, even when you tell them you don't send $$ that way...so usually you just have to work out a $$ figure that makes both folks happy.
    Too many folks have been abusing that option, and you can't blame PP for cracking down on those they believe are at fault.
     
  16. Asterios

    Asterios Well-Known Member

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    I agree i'm not a fan of paying thru the gift option since it essentially gives up your right to any recourse if the seller decides to screw you, but its hard to avoid when it seems like half the people selling here only accept PayPal payments as gifts.

    (me on the other hand I only accept PayPal the normal way not as a gift.)
     
  17. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Your opinion was noted. Now get lost. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Something similar happened to a friend of mine online that was only accepting gift payments via Paypal. They said that he had recieved too many gift payments and that their research showed that many of them had been for actual goods. Apparently someone at Paypal cought on to him, because the buyers would notate what it was for in the notes (ie: "payment for items via TFW" or something like that) when sending him "gift payments". They suspended his Paypal account indefinently at this point and supposedly they are cutting him a check for whatever balance he had AFTER they calculate and withdraw all the fees he's avoided from said transactions.

    Moral of the story? Stop it. Paypal is catching on to the misuse of the "gift" option and are starting to crack down. If you're a seller who only accepts "gift payments" then it looks as though your days are numbered. If you're a buyer going along with said payments... you should probably wisen up and protect yourself better. Granted, they probably aren't going to be able to catch everyone and some will continue to get away with it as long as people are willing to buy from them, but they are starting to get smart about this. Honestly, I think the end result will be that, because they won't be able to catch everyone, that they'll drop the gift option all together.
     
  18. transtrekkie

    transtrekkie On the level.

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    Whenever I sell stuff on here I specifically request that people NOT use gift because it doesn't included address and shipping info with the payment and I wound up losing track of who bought what that way.
     
  19. TrueNomadSkies

    TrueNomadSkies Airachnid's ratservant

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    Haha well, whenever I've sent people gift "payments", I've often made it a point to avoid using words like buy/sell/payment/etc for legal reasons, and have pretty much just said "Thanks for that Rattrap you found me" or whatever it was, and I'm always prepared to argue the whole "gift of find/effort" if time comes down to it, especially in the sense of doing this with a friend who lives far away from me, rather than "some guy on a forum". That last part is pretty key, as its likely one of the small & easy to drop things that indicate pretty strongly that you're abusing the system, at least from an auditor's side or whatever.

    It's sort of the same thing when you send stuff as a "gift" through the postal system which I believe is also technically a form of fraud, but everyone does it for small/low volume things, even online stores at times because customs has a habit of screwing people much less this way which makes it good for business. Much like on the buyer's side, I treat this as an instance of sending something to a friend that they might otherwise have to live without or buy. I'm not running a business or really making profit, but rather sending a collectible (be it yugioh cards or a transformer) to a friend who happens to live farther than walking distance from my house.

    Again, I won't go on record in saying that I support violating any sort of agreement that you've signed off on (especially when it involves financials & your personal information), but if you're gonna do something that you know could lean on the side not happily traveled, at least be prepared & aware.
     
  20. Strarf

    Strarf Toy Battles Reloaded TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think one of the main reasons I stopped selling here and moved to eBay was that I was tired of getting gift payments that had the additional message of "payment for items." Don't you realize that that could get me in trouble. I didn't even ask for you to send it as a gift, I'd rather you sent it as a normal payment.
     

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