Nemesis Prime Orgins?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Mad_Jester, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Mad_Jester

    Mad_Jester Wreckers

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    Admittedly I've really only seen the first two seasons of G1 several times. A few episodes after the '86 movie. One episode of Armada, two episodes of Beast Wars, and all of Animated. I've read all of War Within and every IDW comic to date. I know, I'm a terrible fan.

    Anyway, when did Nemesis Prime make his first appearance? What other incarnations have their been of him? And did he ever have any armor similar to UM's?

    I'm thinking about getting the Classic Version of him and possibly the Shadow Commander set. I kinda have this thing about wanting to know the back story of all the toys I collect.

    I do remember a G1 episode where Megatron created a duplicate of Prime to trick the Autobots, and wasn't there an episode where the Stunticons disguised themselves has Autobots with Motomaster as Prime?

    Thanks for the info.
     
  2. Autobot X

    Autobot X Too broke for 3P and MP.

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    As far as I know, and I may be wrong, Nemesis prime first showed up officially in Armada as the SuperCon (deluxe) Optimus repaint. Then there was the Universe Nemesis Prime, who was a dark repaint of Beast Wars Neo Big Convoy.

    I think, though, you can think of RiD Scourge (repaint of G2 Laser Rod Optimus Prime) as the first real appearance of Nemesis Prime, considering it was the first time we had an evil Optimus repaint. He had a Spymaster figure that oddly enough was repainted as Optimus later. They also had Destructicon Scourge, who was an evil repaint of the G2 Hero Optimus Prime.

    I think the only official releases of Nemesis Prime other than the above are the Alternators Nemmy and the SDCC "Classics" Nemmy.

    If I missed something, I'm sure someone can fill in the gaps.
     
  3. scarnivac

    scarnivac Well-Known Member

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    That was the other way around, the autobots disguised themselves as stunticons to infiltrate the decepticon base..

    with prime as motormaster, mirage as dragstrip the other's I can't really remember..
     
  4. Mad_Jester

    Mad_Jester Wreckers

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    That covers the toys, but what I really wanted to know is what was Nemesis Prime's first cartoon/comic appearance, if there ever was any?

    Oh, that's right. I gotta go back and re-watch everything again. Thanks.
     
  5. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    I'd say a first cartoon appearance would be Car Robots where the character was called Black Convoy (in Japan--which came before RID in the US). As far as I'm aware, that's the only cartoon appearance that any form of "Nemesis Prime" ended up in (then again, I've never watched all of Armada, Energon, or Cybertron--only parts of them). So someone, please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  6. Cujo

    Cujo United States Air Force

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    RiD Scourge was the original Nemesis Prime....
    but if you wanted to get technical wouldn't Nova Prime be the 1st Nemesis Prime???
     
  7. umbc8

    umbc8 A PRIME Guy

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    The first appearance of a character specifically named Nemesis Prime is Armada, episode 43: "Puppet"

    Before the current IDW series, he wasn't actually in a comic except for Dreamwave's More Than Meets the Eye series for Armada, and that was just a character description.

    This info comes from the Seibertron site.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2008
  8. Ravenxl7

    Ravenxl7 W.A.F.F.L.E.O.

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    I personally think the first Nemesis Prime was the Armada version (both show and toy), as I don't count RID Scourge as one of them. He's much more than just an evil Prime. Now if he was a repaint of the current Prime figure, than I would be more likely to count him. Yeah, he's still a Prime repaint, but a repaint of a mold from a past line. If my memory is correct, G1 Megs did attempt to create an evil Optimus Prime, but it failed, so it doesn't technically count.
     
  9. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    The evil G1 Optimus Primes were not true "Nemesis Primes". Nemesis Prime in nearly all his incarnations is defined by being a tortured creature, broken and remade by Unicron / Strxus / whoever. The Armada Nemesis certainly seemed to fit the bill, though he was little more than a puppet Sideways used the Linkage manga established him like that.

    Another Nemesis Prime shows up in Balancing Act, the first run of the Fun Publications comics. That's the Universe one, comic follows the toy bio more or less, so again, tortured creature broken and remade as a servant of Unicron's will.


    There's the Nemesis Prime seen in IDW's comics, the former Nova Prime, who was a bit more complicated but ultimately he too was driven by the dark Matrix, so I guess a case could be made for him being broken and bent to doing its will.


    Think that covers all the main Nemesis Primes. There is a Black Convoy in Binaltech, though, who is Nemesis Prime in the West, so he would also count to the list of Nemesis Primes who've been used in comics.


    Anyways, the basic origin is nearly always "a Prime / other Transformer broken through years of torture and remade into a killing machine serving solely their master, remade in the image of a Prime if they were not a Prime already."
     
  10. Rattrap Primal

    Rattrap Primal Geek Overlord

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    I think it's cool that there is an evil Prime (excluding the Shattered Glass version) in every line since RID's Scourge/ Nemesis Prime/ Black Battle Convoy/ Deathkill) Anyway, I think the Nemesis concept started when Takara did the Black G2 Laser Prime in Car Robots
     
  11. Silent_Magnus

    Silent_Magnus Taint of Primus

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    Actually I think the first is Black Lio Convoy

    He even uses the classic black and teal, although he doesn't have too much of the latter.

    His japanese name is Black Convoy.
    He is an "evil prime".
     
  12. Black Oracle

    Black Oracle Black Convoy's Dark Angel

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    I guess RiD Scourge/CR Black Convoy was probably the first officially recognised 'dark' Prime.

    Nemesis Primes are usually corrupted or failed or antithetic creations to Primes that have fallen to greater evil forces whether externally or within themselves.
     
  13. Dremare

    Dremare Had an Epiphany

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    I think that the first permanent and official 'Nemesis Prime' is RiD Scourge/Car Robots Black Convoy, because he's the first Nemesis Prime-like character to be in more than one episode. (I think that Black Lio Convoy was the first evil black Prime repaint though).
     
  14. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    Just to elaborate a bit on what was said, not every black repaint of Prime is a Nemesis Prime, or even a bad guy, Nucleon Quest SuperConvoy and Black Big Convoy were both black repaints of a Prime toy and both were heroes in their respective fictions just to give two of many examples.

    In G1, there was no Nemesis Prime. Megatron did create a duplicate of Prime, but it was a true duplicate, in color scheme and personality, who was going to lead the Autobots into a trap. (A Prime Problem)

    Fast forward to BWII, the first Japanese sequel to Beast Wars, featured an episode that had a crystal that would create evil versions of TF's, including an evil version of BB (Decepticon Bomber Plane), and then was used later to create Black Lio Convoy.

    Then a few years later in Car Robots (A series never meant to leave Japan, but it did and became Robots In Disguise) as a repaint of the G2 Laser Prime figure, featured an Autobot crew that crashed on Earth and never reactivated. The crew pods were captured and were reprogrammed and scanned in new modes, creating Black Convoy and Combaticons. (which obviously became Scourge in RiD). Black Convoy would be a feature character in the series after his creation, leading up to his recovered memory and attempts at killing Gigatron using Brave Maximus, where he would then be beaten and mindwiped into an obediant tool for Gigatron by the end of the series, then put in one of those Phantom Zone 2-d window panes from Superman II for transport back to Cybertron. Additionally, there was a black Fire Convoy figure as a lucky draw, but there was no accompaning fiction with the figure, so who knows whose side he is on. Lastly, with RiD, there would be a spychanger Scourge figure, scaled really to fit with Brave Maximus and a Destructicon Scourge as a KB exclusive repaint of G2 Hero Optimus Prime.

    In Armada, as mentioned, a puppet to Sideways (Who was a puppet of Unicron) would be the first official Nemesis Prime, a repaint of the bendy Prime figure, who appeared in a single animated episode and essentially beat the crap out of everyone. In Japan, there would be a Scourge figure (Named for the US name for Black Convoy), with a different paint scheme, and the same minicon this time named Sweep. (As a nod to Scourge and the Sweeps).

    In Energon, there was no black version of prime. In Superlink (The Japanese series), there was no black Prime either, save for a manga and a model kit, which featured "Grand Scourge". He had no real origin, and other then fighting with Grand Convoy, didn't do anything.

    In Cybertron, again, there was no black prime, save for a black and red version of Optimus called "Galaxy Force Optimus Prime", but again, the bio and fiction made the figure to be a end of the series Optimus Prime.

    In Universe, there would be the second official Nemesis Prime figure as a repaint of the BWNeo Big Convoy figure, whose bio indicated he was an alternate universe Prime who was remade via torment into Unicrons herald of destruction and bearer of the Dead Matrix. He would show up only in the club comics.

    In Alts, there was another official Nemesis Prime as a repaint of the Optimus Prime Alternator figure as an exclusive to SDCC. In Japan, Black Convoy yet again (with a slightly different paint aps) would give him a rather soap operaish background.

    In the modern IDW comics, they created Nova Prime, a Prime from well before Optimus' time, preceding even Optimus' predecessor Sentinel Prime, who would succumb to the dead universe and rename himself Nemesis Prime because that's a tired cliche at this point and that's what happens. His design is completely original (though it seems to have had some inspiration from Energon Rodimus), and there is no toy.

    Then, finally, in Universe/Classics, there'd be another official Nemesis Prime, this time the repaint of Classics Optimus Prime, again exclusive to SDCC, who featured a background bio on the box of being a creation of Straxus to hunt down and destroy Optimus Prime.

    As to the upcoming Shadow Commander set, we know there's a comic coming with it, and my guess is it will give the story for the Shadow Commander. This will likely be the only appearance of Shadow Commander given that he's a complete fan creation. (though an incredibly awesome one. :D  )
     
  15. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I'm still disappointed with how IDW handled Prime Nova (remember when we still called him Prime Nova and not Nova Prime?). Aside from trading off his cool name (Prime Nova) for the cliche'd Nemesis Prime, they took what could have been a very interesting character and just made him into another ultimate, pure evil villain. Sad. Just sad.

    On a side note, I just bought TF Animated Lockdown tonight and all this talk of RiD Scourge had me thinking I should take some pictures of them driving side-by-side. Yeahhh. Totally cool. :D 
     
  16. Ravenxl7

    Ravenxl7 W.A.F.F.L.E.O.

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    So, that doesn't change that, at least to me, he's more than just an evil Prime.

    It's like a huge fan of G1 and the whole argument of Ultra Magnus ultimately just being a "white Prime repaint". You can argue it all you want, but that isn't going to change the persons mind. Might be a somewhat bad example, but I think it makes my point decently.
     
  17. Black Oracle

    Black Oracle Black Convoy's Dark Angel

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    I gotta agree that i liked the name 'Nova Prime' better than 'Nemesis Prime'. It was an original and new name; 'Nemesis Prime' is by now too commonly used.

    God i hate listening to your comments Mako! They make me also dissatisfied with TFs comics! Stop spreading your dissatisfaction to me!

    And Lockdown with Black Con...err, Scourge, would be cool to see!
     
  18. Mad_Jester

    Mad_Jester Wreckers

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    I'm still a little behind with reading IDW comics, I have them all to date, I just haven't had the chance to read them. So I'm hoping that they do something cool with Nova/Nemesis Prime. I was blown away when he showed up. He is pretty badass.
     
  19. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, sorry! :p 

    Count on it. I just need to find the memory card to my digi-cam.
     
  20. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Nice comprehensive recap, Pravus Prime. :) 

    Now, is it fair to consider Black Convoy/Scourge from RID as a real "Nemesis Prime"?

    I mean, despite being a repaint of Laser Prime, he's really a distinct character with absolutely no connection to Fire Convoy at all. Besides the superficial resemblance, he's really no relation to Optimus Prime.

    In that sense, the concept of a real Black/Nemesis/Scourge Prime is really more a creation of the toy lines and the "repaint industry"... which has trickled down back into some of the main fictions.

    In fact, I think Furman's IDW storyline might be the first time the whole "Dead Universe" concept has been explored in any detail. And considering how half-assed that was, it's not saying much. :) 

    zmog
     

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