Customs: Need some advice on paints for a large scale project.

Discussion in 'Creative General Discussion' started by TonyzCustomz, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. TonyzCustomz

    TonyzCustomz Am I doin it rite? TFW2005 Supporter

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    So coming this Comic-Con there will be a 1:1 scale Samus Aran walking the halls captivating the hearts of Metroid fans everywhere. My business partner Justin Ton, creator of the 1/6th scale Samus action figure, will be tackling this project and has already started with a almost completed helmet done and more to come(As seen in the picture I posted). We will be working together to complete this epic endeavor and the suit will be vacuum-formed and made of styrene. My question is how should I go about painting this? I know some people are working on large scale projects or have completed some before so that's why I ask. It will need to be pretty damn durable so I am thinking should I treat it like a car paint job(I am assuming this is the strongest choice)? It will also have a super, super high gloss finish that I am assuming will have to be mixed or heat cured?

    [att]243618660[/att]
    When done along with lots of surprise features that will be kept secret for now.

    So any ideas or links would be appreciated. Thanks Radicons!
     

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  2. autobotx23

    autobotx23 Banned

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    This is soooo a question for Wikkid. he has a spray booth at home/work, I believe, and I know he does some auto paint work. I would assume due to the colors and various finishes that auto paint would be the best, but I would hit up Wikkid for sure.

    It's gonna be sick! :thumb . Good luck, man.
     
  3. plowking

    plowking I'm with ErechOveraker. Veteran

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    Looking good.

    I'd agree to ask either Wikkid, or Nemesis Predaking. They both are known to have experience in the automotive painting industry, and are both talented bashers/customizers.
     
  4. TonyzCustomz

    TonyzCustomz Am I doin it rite? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Thanks guys, I just PMed Wikkid and NP. Asked them to post here instead of PM me back so anyone can have access to the info if needed or curious.
     
  5. Nemesis Predaking

    Nemesis Predaking Offical Enforcer WTF@TFW Veteran

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    Well, I'm no Wikkid by any stretch.
    The painting I do for my work is "roughshot" at best.
    We use an Automotive grade paint from PPG
    Sprayed on with spray gun.
    I add a medium reducer & a hardener to my paint,
    But we don't use clear costs at all.
    I really can't be much more help then that I'm an "amature" at best for this stuff.
    Wiikkid would be able to help you out a lot more then I could.

    This is more long the lines of what I do
    [​IMG]
    But I did paint the whole truck, this was just after to met with a 18 wheeler
     
  6. Wikkid

    Wikkid Semi-retired customizer

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    Chances are, most retailers won't sell you auto grade paint over the counter. Best thing to do is to go straight to a local bodyshop. (It'll also be easier to get everything you need in exact amounts.)

    The best paint systems out there are:

    Kosmic Kolor by House of Kolor
    Global by PPG
    Chromabase by Dupont
    Autobase by Sikkens

    These are all urethane basecoats that are reduced to a 1-1 mix and also require a two-part clear. Legislation to force the industry to switch to waterbourne systems takes effect in 2010 so many of the shops may have already swapped out with these brands. (Especially in California)

    Waterborne systems are:

    Envirobase by PPG
    Aquabase by ICI/Nexa
    Cromax by Dupont

    These systems are mixed with distilled water. They tend to look lumpy as hell when sprayed but the clearcoat smooths it out.


    To go start to finish with this custom, After giving it a soapy wash an rinse, I would recommend you sand this sucker with 80g then finish with 180 to level and curve everything where you need it. The coarser the grit, the straighter the work. Do not use a block sander on curves, use a stiff sponge. (You probably already know most this stuff)
    Once you're happy with the rough out, wash it down with a waterborne degreaser. (Regular pre-washes tend to eat styrene on contact) You can then apply three to four coats of primer (Preferably from the same company you have the basecoat for.) Wet sand with 600 grit aprox 10 hours after application. Then, let it sit for another day. (This is to be sure the sand scratches don't swell.) After letting it sit, wet sand with 800g.

    Now, you're ready for the top coat. Once everythings dry, wash it down with degreaser again to eliminate any oil residue left from fingers an whatnot. Using a full size spray gun (HVLP, conventional, gravity feed, siphon/ don't matter which) and a full size compressor with inline watertrap and set your airpressure anywhere from 35- 45 psi. (The higher, the better the atomization) Spray on a dry coat and check for fish eyes. (or any strange reaction) If none, continue spraying with medium wet coats until coverage is acheived. (Usually three coats roughly 5 minutes apart) Basecoat never needs to be sanded. It can sit for days and still stick to the last coat just fine

    If two-toning, spray everything in your first color. Allow it to dry for half an hour. I would recommend masking be done with [​IMG]
    It's a vinyl tape used for custom work and allows for extreme contours and angles. It also keeps paint edges from building up allowing for level finishes without buffing.

    Once all base coats are applied, it's time to throw on the clear coat. Do not wash it down with anything, rather, use a tack rag to remove any dust or lints that may have collected during the process. Apply clearcoat at a higher PSI to acheive a smoother finish. (Usually 45-55) First coat should be rather dry. It allows the next coats something to hook into and avoid runs. Let dry for approx 5 mins. Apply the next coat medium wet. Let dry for 10 minutes or when it's stringy to the touch. (Applying too soon can lead to runs and solvent poping) Apply as many coats as you're comfortable with but be sure the last has a full wet coat so no dry spray is seen. Let it dry for a day and you're ready to go. (Only vinyl decals can be cleared over and must be done in very dry coats. Anything else will be eaten horribly by the solvents in the clear)
    If you are applying anything over the clearcoat, allow it to cure for a week. You can pretty much dunk it in gasoline and it won't effect anything at that point.

    Colour sanding is optional. If you want the glass effect, you can sand out any orange peel with 1000g wet, then 2000g wet sand paper. All you'll need to buff it are one O them Walmart type polishers and some off the shelf compound. I'll give you details on polshing if need be but it's risky and you'll likely not need to do it anyway. (Unless you need to eliminate a run)

    So, the list of products needed from the bodyshop are:
    1 tack rag
    A jar of waterborne degreaser/pre-wash
    1 sheet of grey scotch brite (For edges and corners)
    80 grit sand paper dry
    180 grit sand paper dry
    600g wet sand
    800g wet sand
    1000g wet
    2000g wet
    1 roll of 1/8th vinyl tape from 3m
    1 roll of autobody grade masking tape. (Avoid that crap for house painting)
    5 paint strainers (Extras are always handy)
    Automotive grade primer (Have them put the reducer and activator in a separate container and to ratio. This way you just dump the two together an you're off.)
    Basecoat in colours of choice. (This can be reduced on the spot so it's ready to spray)
    Clearcoat (Like the primer, have them get the hardener and reducer separated to be mixed later)


    The tools needed are:
    A full size compressor. (Airbrush compressors won't maintain the airpressure needed).
    A gravity or siphon feed spray gun or even touch up gun. (An airbrush won't be capable of getting the clear on fast or thick enough)
    In-line watertrap.
    Respirator (This stuff can really mess a d00d up quick)


    Lemme know what colours you need and I'll get the paint codes. (GM solid red is always WA8774, Ford black is AQ, Chrysler pearl red is PRH, etc, etc) Makes it faster and easier when you go in.
     
  7. frenzyrumble

    frenzyrumble Banned

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    WOW Wikkid, that is great, extensive, and detailed.

    Out of curiosity, wouldn't the paint/process depend mostly on the material/surface he'll be painting? Meaning, wouldn't a resin base get painted differently than a plastic base?

    I didn't have the greatest results from the house of kolorz small air brush paints, they seemed to chip off even a well primed plastic, I assume the other lines they carry are better?

    Just a cut from my own process, I used a large sprayer, and thinned out gloss enamels. for the softer parts of plastic, I used a lacquer based paint.

    PS, Wikkid, are you attending TFCon?
     
  8. ALPHAMAGNUS

    ALPHAMAGNUS Sector70: Reformatting... Veteran

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    ask the guy that made this,
    [​IMG]
    and sold it for $2000.
     
  9. Wikkid

    Wikkid Semi-retired customizer

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    The only resins I've worked with are Fiberglass and SMC. (inc. various types of repair systems) The plastics I commonly come across are things like TPO, ABS, Polyurethane, an so on. The only difference in prep is it's best to apply a coat of adhesion promotor to the raw plastic (bumpers) as they tend to be hit with stones at 100 mile an hour. Alls I can say is if the sealer/primer sticks, the topcoat will even moreso. The companies actually put in a lifetime warranty to insure that it will.

    As for over the counter paints. I know very little about them. The stuff I use is not sold in stores in it's urethane form. (That I know of) I have used non-active spray can primers and found they do indeed chip the basecoat off as though they don't fully bite. I can only suggest using the the complete system from primer/sealer to topcoat as that's the only way the companys and ICAR recommend.

    No TFcon for me. Hopefully next year. My shop is backed up with wrecks till fall. 2 feet of snow and -42C weather does that.......... mixed with drunk and crappy drivers.
     
  10. TonyzCustomz

    TonyzCustomz Am I doin it rite? TFW2005 Supporter

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    :bowdown:  Thank You!!! Seriously, this is so thorough it could be a tutorial with a few pics. LOL I think for paint I will go with whatever my local shops have, my main concern is durability so I will go with with all the same system like you said so everything will be compatible.

    This is probably my main concern, I will be painting almost nothing but formed styrene and some small amounts of resin. I know some brands sell bumper primer and is made for plastics(I assume) would that be a better route or will adhesion promoter and normal primer still work better?

    Thanks again bro, really appreciate it.:thumbs2: 
     
  11. Maximus_Prime

    Maximus_Prime Graphicon

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    I know this project will look sweet as hell!

    I am curious about the model that will be wearing the suit ;) 
     
  12. TonyzCustomz

    TonyzCustomz Am I doin it rite? TFW2005 Supporter

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    :D  All aspects of this project should be satisfying once it is complete.
     

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