NEED HELP with Custom Ultra Magnus repaint

Discussion in 'Creative General Discussion' started by CooljazCustoms, Oct 12, 2010.

  1. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    im not sure if this is the right section, so if it needs to be moved please go ahead, sorry and thanks.

    ok, well i have been slowly working on an Ultra Magnus repaint of one of my 1st Movie Optimus Primes. i made sure that i cleaned the entire figure very well, got any grease off, used a q-tip to get all dust off the entire thing. i applied 2 thin layers of Primer over the entire figure..well bottom half cuz thats what im working on right now. after letting that all dry for about 3-4 days. i then aplied 4 thin layers of white paint, had about 5-6hr in between each coat, and then waited another 4-5 days before adding the clear coat. i barely started to put the clear coat on when something happened that i havent seen before

    the paint started to "bubble" and the red starting bleeding thru. It only happend to all parts that were red, the rims were not effected for whatever reason. and the blue flames are perfectly white under it all, u can just see where they are since the red all bled thru.

    does anyone know why this happened, cuz im kinda stumped, and pissed and not sure if its even worth it to continue with these pieces, or even how to remove all the paint fast, and effectively without messing up the parts.

    i was using Krylon spray, and i have done this same process on 5 other figures, none of them white, all darker colors but id didnt happen AT ALL with any of those, no bubbles or cracks.

    if it would have come all consistent and just had a little bleed thru, and no cracking/bubbling, itd prob been cool looking and woulda gave some G1 characteristics to the figure, but it didnt lol
     

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  2. garibaldiprime

    garibaldiprime Banned

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    Strange but its some sort of reaction between the white paint and the primer.
    What type of primer did you use because this "krylon" stuff you mentioned might not be compatible with it.
    As for fixing the problem just take some 1200 grit wet and dry sand paper and sand down the effected areas then re-apply some primer and use a different type of white.
     
  3. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    I used Krylon primer as well. Krylons spray has worked well for me on not only all the other figures ive done but basically anything plastic i have needed to paint.

    and its effected nearly the entire project so far but the rims...so there are some tight spots im not sure if i could get in there with sand paper. wasnt sure if there was something i could maybe soak or dip it all in, kinda like a paint thinner type of solution that i would be able to jut "rinse" off all the paint with and try something else after the fact

    also, the white was perfectly fine over the primer until i added the clear coat, so not sure if that means anything, but the primer, white and clear were all the same brand
     
  4. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    Just from an artist standpoint and not a noob customizer standpoint..

    Paint bubbles with atmosphere changes such as too much humidity or too cold then suddenly hot.

    humid/dry air at room temp or warmer.

    Fusion doesn't need primer. Other Krylons may.

    Paint is old.

    Didn't mix the paint well enough.

    Paint is defective.

    Do the same thing on a piece of styrene and see what happens (For Sale sign would work).
     
  5. G60Force

    G60Force World Smallest Mini-Con

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    I hope somebody knows anything ... cuz that sounds like ur only option :( 
     
  6. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    Thanks for the help so far. all of those sound like logical options. but its been within 3 degree temp where i live (Phoenix) and the paint was just purchased, so hopefully it wast at the store too long LOL.

    i should be getting another lower half of this figure here shortly, so ill try something different, maybe not spray the white, just hand paint it all. or maybe just not clear coat the white after the fact. i only did it to save some of the other details i had applied, the white had a nice shine and smoothness to it already. so guess ill start over on the new half and then slowly try to fix this one to use for other applications.... i.e. custom trailer/armor pieces
     
  7. UltraMagnus2008

    UltraMagnus2008 Autobot

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    I always prime black its one of the only ways to beat that TF1 Red plastic, voyager customizers of the same character had issues as well back then, prime black to cover that red then prime white, just use fine paper to sand down the layers you've already put it. Purple Power is an excellant soak you can get from Walmart if you want to strip paint, wont melt plastics.
     
  8. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    ya i usually do prime black, but i figured since i was doing a white truck i would go with grey...guess that was a mistake

    ill see if i can find that stuff at the walmart by the house and then ill retry it with a black base then....

    thanks for the help!
     
  9. garibaldiprime

    garibaldiprime Banned

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    You say it started bubbling after clearcoat? Thats your problem right there. Was it the same brand clearcoat as the paint and primer? If not thats the problem, incompatibility.
    Was the paint dry enough before you applied the clear?
    Maybe you put the clear on too thick, that sometimes happens to me when i paint clear over something and its usually because ive put the clear on too thick or the paitn under it hasnt fully cured.
    Dry and Cured are two very different things.
    As for stripping the paint theres nothing out there thats gonna do all the work for you unfortunately.
    You can use isopropyl alcohol and that will strip off the paint with ease over night, but you'll still have to do some scrubbing to get in the corners and tight bits and you run the risk of the plastic cracking or becoming brittle by soaking it like that too.
    Best thing to do is either sand everything down, or use the alcohol but use a cotton swab soaked in alcohol and scrub the paint off.
     
  10. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    Oops I forgot that part.

    Yeah , I'd mist it with the clear coat. Sounds like incompatible paint. I have to do this with my sketch cards as it causes the inks, markers or paints to run if I just spray normal on them. I get a shoebox and lightly mist the cards, close the box..wait a few minutes and repeat. after about the 3rd time I can go at it normal.
     
  11. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    yes, as mentioned before...the primers, paints and clear coats were all the same brand of paint. ive used these brands on multiple figure and other things around the house never having this problem before....just happened this time with a white paint.

    i had days inbetween primer-paint and paint-clearing, and light coats are always applied.

    i think it def had to be something with those colors over those certain pieces( the red parts) because the Rims of the truck along with the 5th wheel(black section in back) no peeling, bubbles, cracks or bleed thru happened
     
  12. SonOfNemesis

    SonOfNemesis Well-Known Member

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    Hey man, I have had this happen about 4 times and I am totally convinced that it is because of white paint in general and the gloss or clear coat.

    Here's what happened: I painted a Classics Breakdown and it was perfect. I waited about a week before glossing it. And this is after about 45 customs. Anyway, I glossed it like every other custom I did and it did exactly what yours did (by the way I used Classics Sideswipe (red)). My next three customs were all Magnus related. White paint on gray primer and then clear or gloss coated.

    I tried the following: Enamels, acrylics, lacquer - none of it made a difference.

    I was able to fix all of the customs back to normal because I prime, paint, and clear/gloss in segments.

    THE REMEDY!!!!! After you paint with white, I believe it is crucial to do very, very, very light misting sprays with clear or gloss. I now do about 10 very light misting sprays (30 minutes between layers) and then let it fully cure about 1.5 weeks. I then am able to fully clear/gloss in regular coats.

    Hope this helps you like it did for me.
     
  13. encline

    encline customizer of love TFW2005 Supporter

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    Here is another option to think about.

    All paints have some sort of chemicals in them. They "bond" in some way or other. You could replace "bond" with "grab" or "pull" on the surface below. If you put an acrylic down and try to put a more aggressive paint on top, it could pull the paint below it up. Or, you could have waited to long between coats and reactivated the paint below. There is also the possability that some kind of contaminate got on the surface..

    I hate fusion white....I would suggest going to a hobby shop to get some other types of paint...
     
  14. SonOfNemesis

    SonOfNemesis Well-Known Member

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    I tried flat white from Tamiya, I've used model master white enamel, and I've even tried testors's white out of a can - all the same with clear or gloss before I did the above method. I think it's just white in general. A lot of guys note that it's a beeytch too.
     
  15. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    thanks for the support, help, and info so far everyone. it all is much appreciated.

    i was getting pretty bummed out over it all. this is prob my 15th custom total, only 5th that ive done a full clear coat on afterwards, so still much a newbie with them, but have not had this problem and the other ones ive done.... or painting anything kinda plastics for whatever reason before.

    im gonna try taking it all off....a lengthy process i fear... priming it with Black instead of grey, and then when i get to the clearing again, im gonna try the light mistings a few of you have suggested.
     
  16. autobotx23

    autobotx23 Banned

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    Hey fellow AZ basher. Try using a black Primer, like Krylon Fusion Flat Black or Krylon Camo Black. Our AZ heat hates white paint boning to Primer. Especially on top of red. Also, if it's hot, try to paint later at night, like 140 or 11.

    Also, try not paint on a raised surface. The parts can still be affected by the undissipated heat in the ground.

    Good luck, man!
     
  17. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    ya, the heat kinda blows...but i was either trying to get it painted early am or alter in the evening..im gonna start trying to strip it all down today and then after thats all done im def gonna retry it with a black primer instead of grey.

    this custom is for myself, so i guess if anything, i don have to really clear coat it since its basically going to just sit on my shelf anyways lol. so with no movement a clear coat shouldnt be 100% needed
     
  18. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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    so i went to walmart to get some of that purple cleaning stuff that was mentioned. they only had a 3gallon jug and it was like $16, so i went ahead and got some 1000grit sandpaper instead.

    i removed a fender, and then i used a very small flathead screwdriver to get in the cracks and then the sandpaper on the entire thing, getting all the clear coat, and 99% of the white back off, some parts did get back down to the actual red underneath. i have re-primed it with 3 light "dustings" this time. havng let that settle for some time and im going to try the white again, doing the same ting with extremely light dustings with a small interval of time in between each coat. hopefully that will help it all stay on better without having he same problem.

    ill post pics once it dries, wish me luck LOL
     
  19. garibaldiprime

    garibaldiprime Banned

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    Good luck.
     
  20. CooljazCustoms

    CooljazCustoms Autocon/Deceptibot

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