My difficult Lair Review...Wow.

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by Prowl, Aug 31, 2007.

  1. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    And I don't mean Wow, like it's an amazing game. I just don't know where to even stand with it. On one end, I find myself continuing to play it, but on another, I find myself dissapointed that more time and polish couldn't have been put into it. Someone on these boards said the other day that you will either love it or hate it. I have to agree with that, though at the moment I am undecided because I kept playing it.

    Framerate is choppy and after playing Warhawk for hours, it felt like I was watching an old filmbox movie when playing Lair. I realize that Lair has more texture effect than said Warhawk, but I could have done without some of the fancy lighting effects (and they are fancy, almost Cinema CG) in a tradeoff for better framerate.

    Warning to anyone thinking of buying it. Controlling the dragon is done ONLY with the SixAxis. That is, no joystick control. I grew to like it, but I can also see some people loathing it. After a while it feels natural and you just end up going with the flow, but I'd be lying if I said that during the more intense moments I didn't react by reaching towards the sticks.

    The music and overall presentation (ie. Storyline) are fantastic, and the dialogue during the levels is fun (Star Wars dog fighting with dragons.....ie "Look at the Size of that thing." "Cut the Chatter".)

    But this game is the epitome of "rent before buy" because you will either love it or hate it with a passion. I find myself playing it and not stopping, but maybe it's morbid curiosity, or just the fact that flying around does feel really good in it.
     
  2. pscoop

    pscoop Dead inside

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    When did it release? I didn't think it came out until Sept.
     
  3. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

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    So.... how does this game compare to the Rogue Squadron series? Same types of missions and gameplay feel? Or is this game totally different?

    And whats the framerate we're talking about here? I'm having a hard time a developer would release a hyped game that would continually drop to the low 20s.

    edit: I just saw the IGN review for the game :cry  How could you do this Factor 5??!
     
  4. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    Ugh, Factor 5 man... those guys, good with the graphics, but the gameplay always left a fair bit to be desired.
     
  5. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    It came out yesterday.. Early release, probably to avoid the bad reviews. Judging from just watching (not an actual clock), I'd say the game dips to 24 at some points, but sometimes it does so in a slow_motion effect, like when you're plowing through humans. It looks beautiful, but so does WH and it runs steady even when the screen is split in 4.

    The Rogue Squadron feel is definitely there. It's in the ways missions are set up and the way that your teamates speak to you and do their own thing. Hell the game even has a stable (ie hangar) where you can walk around and choose the dragon you want to fly in that mission. There are bonus events you can aquire in every mission and you select missions in the same way you do in RS.
     
  6. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree. I always found the gimble lock in Rogue Squadron annoying, prefering the free-flowing controls of the Jedi "Starfighter" series.

    RS did look pretty though, some of the finer graphics on the N64. Same with Lair. It's definitely Pretty (The lightning in the raining levels bouncing off every moist surface looks movie-quality). But you're not just watching the game, you're also playing it, and there it comes up short.
     
  7. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    Too bad, really.
    That was one of the games that I was convincing myself I needed a PS3 for.
    Who doesn't want to fly a dragon?

    I hope Uncharted: Drake's Fortune doesn't let us down.

    I have faith in Naughty Dog.
     
  8. pscoop

    pscoop Dead inside

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    So do I. Really disappointing about Lair, such a cool concept with so much potential.
     
  9. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    I'm not worried about Uncharted or Ratchet. Those will be hits. Naughty has yet to let me down, while factor 5 has in the past. Not to mention that I could tell something was wrong with Lair from the trailers. Uncharted might not be as open-ended as Jak,but the game looks like a blast and will have the level of polish that Naughty is known for. The same can be said about Ratchet. And the demo and trailers for Folklore have been amazing, so that will be another good one. I think lair is just the bad seed, but there are and willbe other great games coming very soon.
     
  10. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Uff... It always irks me when a game has a bad framerate nowadays, just cause we should be past that. Obviously those at Factor 5 have seen other games- so they had to know. Some more production time would have been better. I remember when the first Rogue Squadron came out, boasting the ram pack for the N64. When you used the ram packs high res mode, the framerate dropped. That always agitated me. If you couldn't throw in a hi-res mode without the framerate dropping, then there is no point. A lot of other games were worse then RS though when it came to Ram pack frame chugging.
     
  11. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Oh that reminds me. I did bring down my PS3 to 720P and that helped with the FR a bit.
     
  12. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    The review at IGN is pretty harsh.

    I think the graphic issues wouldn't seem so awful if the Sixaxis control wasn't so bad. (I'm basing this on what I have read.)

    I wonder if Sony forced Factor 5 into making Sixaxis control mandatory.
     
  13. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

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    Well, according to Factor 5, they have been wanting to do motion control for a long time now.


    Also, I have a $20 gift card at best buy... Is the game worth $40? :p  I just loved the Rogue Squadron series so much, that Im still kinda tempted to get this game despite the negative press its been getting. I wondering if its still worth a buy for somebody who really really enjoyed the hell out of the RS games.
     
  14. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    You might save yourself some money by cutting out a picture of a dragon, playing the Dragonheart soundtrack as you paste the dragon picture over the screen where the X-Wing appears and make your own sound effects. Oh and waggle the controller around.

    "Bcccccchhhhwoooooosh!"
     
  15. fastballspecial

    fastballspecial SAY SOMETHIN'!

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    off-topic like a motha... but... is your avatar of GOB?
     
  16. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, and you have seen my review isn't exactly glowing, but I have always felt that IGN,'s reviews aren't the most competant, nor fair. For example, they will give the Game boy version of Final Fantasy 1 a high score, but when it comes out on PSP, it goes down to like a six. Why? It's the same game (even sporting better graphics). Also, they do these side by side comparisons of 360 Vs. PS3. And most of the time hands down the 360 wins (mostly because a lot of these devlopers are porting to the PS3, and it is never a good thing when you port vs. build from the ground up on a new architecture). So it's 360 VS. PS3... but for some strange reason when Oblivion came out, it looked and moved better on the PS3, so what did they do in their segment usually reserved for PS3 and 360? Include the PC version, which obviously trounces both. There is a PC version of Fear, but they only put the 360 VS PS3 on that one (because the 360 version was better) so why all of a sudden include the PC?

    Anyway, the point I'm making in my way-too-long-for-a-friday explanation, is that IGN is far from a reliable source for reviews. I still trust EGM to be honest.

    The controls on Lair don't suck, and you do get used to them. Honestly, I have come to the conclusion that sometimes IGN reviewers base their scores on how badly they did at the game, and we all know from watching their videos, that they don't know how to play very well. The problem is that Factor 5, for some reason doesn't think its wise to give players complete Y axis control on planes (or now Dragons), so when you try to turn, your dragons crawls on its X axis until you can face the enemy (the same would happen to me on RS), while on something like Warhawk, or any other flyer for that matter, you can pull hard on the stick and twist your plane around until you make a quick about-face.

    edit: I do find it amusing reading all the comments on the IGN boards of all the fan boys gloating, like Lair was the make it or break it game on the PS3, and now that it received such poor scores, Sony will fail to a fire pit of bankruptcy.

    Anyone remember Azurik on the orginal Xbox....... I bought it.........
     
  17. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

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    Funny, because I was thinking of posting a picture of an X-wing over where the dragon appears. My main reason for wanting Lair is that I was hoping that it would basically be Rogue Squadron.

    Yep. It sure is GOB! :D 



    Yeah, I feel some bias coming down at IGN with some of the PS3/PC/360 editors. But Ive also been getting sick of reviews at gaming sites in general for awhile now. (maybe I should start up a new site/podcast/whatever? :p ) And the IGN review for Lair is just a bunch of bitching by what sounds like somebody who never got a fair grasp on the controls, but who knows. I may still buy the game, but I'm now expecting the worst from it. And with titles like Ratchet and Clank coming soon, I may just pass until a nice price drop on the game comes my way.
     
  18. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

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    I just got the game (yay for gift cards!!) and played through some levels. And I gotta say I pretty much agree with Windcharger.

    The bad:
    -framerate will take a noticeable dip at times, also there is some vertical tearing.
    - seems a little dark on my TV, I had to turn up the gamma and the backlight
    -computer targeting system (aka, this game really could have used a targeting reticule like in Rogue Squadron)
    -graphics can be a little muddy
    -random little glitches (such as the game not recognizing a quick gesture)

    The good:
    -very nice graphical presentation, water and lighting loot very nice.
    -music is really great
    -story so far seems quite interesting
    -controls well for the sixaxis
    -missions so far are pretty fun, and Rogue Squadron-esque

    Ok. First off, this is not as well done as the Rogue Squadron games. However, its not nearly as bad as the reviews out there are making it out to be. The dragon control is nice once you get used to it, but in more intense moments, it would be better to have sticks. Using the dragon on the ground is fun, and it does give you the feeling that you really are in a huge battle.

    Also Im getting a very strong Rogue Squadron vibe while playing, and for me thats a good thing.


    If you enjoyed the RS games, I think this title may be worth checking out. And I also agree with the rent before you buy idea for this game. Some people are just going to hate the motion controls. So far I am enjoying it. I hope that some other people give the game a try and post their opinions.
     
  19. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Moderator

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    I think the one thing that puts me off more than any other is that it's like Rogue Squadron :( 


    I really didn't like those games at all, but played them because... well dammit it was Star Wars.
     
  20. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

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    Well, the game has been changed enough from the RS series. Its not really RS3 with new textures and a dragon (although some parts do feel like that). Being able to jump into the sky from a ground battle really feels like nothing in the RS series. I say give Lair a rent someday. Combat in Lair can range quite a bit. Some parts act just like RS, other parts like the ground combat and fighting other dragons in mid air adds more excitement to the game. Although if you just really hate flying around during a battle, this game wont be for you at all either. :p 

    Also, it helps to remember that you're not driving a car or a X-wing. You're driving a living dragon. Once you get that into your head, it seems like its easier to make sense of what the controls are doing.
     

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