Multiple Personalities:

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Tigertrack, Jul 3, 2010.

  1. Tigertrack

    Tigertrack Back In The Game!

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    Do combiners have them? Me think's with all the individuals combined into one, would "he" have multiple personalities, or would he be like TNG's Borg and have a collective consciousness?
     
  2. Abrogate

    Abrogate Nondescript Former Poster

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    A lot of the older fiction, where characterization wasn't the first priority, would just gloss over it and make the combiners big brutes. But, in the original profiles, and in some of the newer fiction, they've played on the fact that the limbs don't always agree with each other, so guys like Menasor have difficulty being efficient.
     
  3. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    I usually saw it as a "collective consciousness" kind of thing, but an often inefficient, as it depended greatly on the team members' ability to agree and work together.

    As such, I don't think combined forms have multiple personalities, but limited (and sometimes conflicted) personalities defined by the team's common goals (fighting, protecting, following orders, whatever)
     
  4. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    I like to think in most cases the Combiner has it's own distinct personality. For example, Bruticus is a seperate being mentally than any of the Combaticons.

    Sometimes with combiners, though, one personality assumes complete control. (Read: almost every time Optimus combines with somebody, the Energon Autobots)
     
  5. Maverick Hunter Christian

    Maverick Hunter Christian Choke on that, causality!

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    Combiner personalities are always messy business...

    Bruticus for example... I'm not so sure about him being a totally separate entity from his component parts. In the episode 'Revenge of Bruticus' during the fight against the combined Autobot/Decepticon/Sentinel Drone forces, he has that one line, "We were imprisoned on Cybertron, for millions of years!..." which could imply that there isn't another being there, just the combined voice of the five Combaticons talking through their combined form.

    ...or Bruticus could just be his own dude and drawing on the memories and motives of the Combaticons. Like I said, its kind've a mess.

    I've often wondered about the thought process of a combined Gestalt if they were a unique personality separate from their components. Where does that mind go when not combined together? Say Devastator, Superion, or Piranacon for example... do they only exist as an individual when their teams combined into the singular robot? That's gotta be the worst kind've horror. When your existence is perpetual nothingness except for a few, brief, manic moments when you blink online and typically find yourself having to fight for your life against another like yourself, only to blink back into nothingness after the fight is finished?

    I can only imagine how quickly the downward spiral into sheer madness would take place under those circumstances. It might serve as an explanation as to why so many combined super robots are little more than loud, angry monsters...
     
  6. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

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  7. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    The original Transformers Universe profiles mentioned on several profiles (Devastator and Predaking to name two) that the component's minds also combined to form the gestalt mind. The brutish effect came when the component minds could not interact properly. The reverse was said of Predaking - the Predacons functioned so well as a group, they united so seamlessly into a single being of pure, perfect feral skill and cunning.

    The more recent Dreamwave profile books and other depictions of Monstructor make him fairly clearly a different character to the six Decepticons who form him - that is even a plot point of sorts in the Dreamwave profile.

    It's a pity that having written all of that for the Universe books, Budiansky never got a chance to properly explore that concept in his run. It sounds as though he asked this question himself when he first profiled the combiners and had some sort of answer in mind, but then did not have the page time to properly get into it.
     
  8. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    Good post, but what about Piranacon? Since there are five limbs, and they can go into any configuration of four as limbs as one as a weapon, you run into an issue that Prianacons personality should change as his configurations do. (I once said Piranacon is really a wrench in the works of any gestalt theory.)

    You've also got Menasor, who is severely impeded by the four limbs intense dislike of Motormaster. If the gestalt is cherry picking traits, such as to resolve Blades and First Aide being part of the whole, why not ignore the dislike of Motormaster?
     
  9. MrSoundwaveGuy

    MrSoundwaveGuy I've made a huge mistake

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    I just liked to think that the combiner leader was the one who controlled everything while combined, thus why they're the leader. I don't know if that's actually been the case in any fiction but I like it because it's the simplest answer.
     
  10. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    I read in my MMTME Profiles book that all of The Stunticons insane personalities is what controls Menasor and makes him dangerous or something like that.

    In that same book they say that all the individual techobots can each gather information and analyze while as Computron.


    So i'm guessing it depends on how the combiners processor was built.
     
  11. Geminii

    Geminii Toyetic multiformophile

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    Consider a gestalt mind as being like a small company, group, or team. Each team member is good at certain tasks and leaves others up to their teammates. From the outside, though, people just interact with the nebulous entity "the company" or "the team".

    As an example, you have people like Aaron Archer, Ann Martelle, Mike Ballog, Michael Vanting, Samantha Lomow, Forest Lee etc. But together, along with a whole lot of others, they form Hasbro, a multibilliondollar international corporation, which takes actions, shuffles dollars and products, and even "speaks" according to its internal policies, procedures, legalities etc, but the source material comes from six thousand employees.

    Now squash all those people together into a single mindscape, speed it up a thousandfold, and throw in a dollop of artificial synergy, and you could be looking at Hasbro the combiner mind.

    In the same way, a gestalt personality is probably emergent, and also probably not terribly worried about 'dissolving' or 'dying' when the components separate - it isn't something the individuals themselves worry over, so it's unlikely to make it to the collective mental agenda, as it were.

    And as with small, close-knit teams and companies, some work more smoothly than others. Some can even handle having original components replaced with new ones, although the underlying dynamic might change. Others don't survive "the band breaking up" - there may be one or more personalities who are absolutely critical to holding everything together.

    It explains why Menasor is nearly useless when his components argue, why Predaking operates nearly perfectly, and why Defensor can be effective - his disparate members are able to put their differences aside for the common good.

    It may also explain Devastator, to a degree, even though the Constructicons are supposed to be a well-oiled machine. Technological limitations mean that they're conferring and making decisions in the mental equivalent of a noisy construction yard instead of a boardroom.
     
  12. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

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    Likely because with Menasor, it's a major trait present in a majority of the gestalt's "choices". There's actually no "conflict" per se when 80% of the group loathes Motormaster. The fact that they're now attached to him doesn't change that in the least. The great majority of the gestalt mind hates the very notion of input coming from that section. Amusingly, for Menasor to work properly, you'd have to cut out Motormaster entirely, and that's not possible.

    Thus, the instability. I imagine whatever processes all that input has some limits as to what it could pick out and suppress. When there is a clear conflict between two impulses (Blades and First Aid) it can pick a functional one. When the whole damn thing is flooded with Motormaster hate, it would have to suppress far too much input to leave a functional warrior.

    Piranacon is tougher, but notice that the vast majority of the time, Nautilator gets to be the gun. He's the hydrophobe, after all. So normally, it's not an issue. Heck, the original giftset didn't even come with him. He's almost like a Targetmaster adjunct to a Gestalt team, really. I imagine if he did plug into a limb socket, the majority of the personality would be the same (since 4 of the other units are still present) but there would likely be some quirks from his inclusion. So that's why they don't tend to do it.

    - Coeloptera
     
  13. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Pretty common in the Japanese animated fiction. The combined forms were typically voiced by the same actor as the leader of the team, and in the same voice too - so Liokaiser and Leozack share a voice actor, as do Magnaboss and Lio Junior, and so on. Lio Junior and Magnaboss is a definite, he takes the lead in controlling Magnaboss. Not so sure about Liokaiser, need to rewatch some Victory.
     
  14. ironarm

    ironarm SHALL RETURN IN NOVEMBER

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    if they did they'd be like this 'tard
    [​IMG]
    OR A QUINTESSON!
     
  15. Geminii

    Geminii Toyetic multiformophile

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    Not really. There's no reason a minor personality change would mean he wasn't Piranacon any more. Snaptrap's contribution stays the same, and there are five variations on the whole. It could simply be variations on a theme, as follows:

    Gun / Piranacon personality variant
    Tentakil / Stable
    Skalor / Neurotic
    Seawing / Brash
    Overbite / Detail-oriented
    Nautilator / Competent
     
  16. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera Big, bad beetle-bot

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    OUCH.

    Sucker gets no love, huh?

    Not that I was any nicer.

    - Coeloptera
     

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