It's true... in IDW, Hot Rod was never quite the "young inexperienced turbo-revvin' punk"... more like a fusion of his old reckless persona, and his Rodimus Prime status. But it still sort of feels like he should be a younger bot.

YEAH. That stuff absolutely drove me crazy. It's like nobody even bothered to consider details like that (that, and the tendency it has of undermining Optimus Prime's experience and wisdom, as if it all just magically comes with the Matrix... y'know, instead of doing anything to DESERVE the Matrix in the first place.

That's one thing I appreciate about IDW's Prime. He was actually a dynamic leader type long before he got the Matrix... though I didn't really like the idea of him being an overachiever cop. It seems too militaristic. Too often Prime's warrior/soldier attributes are emphasized over his philosophical, scientific, medical, political qualities, and the character becomes poorer for it. This "I'm just a simple soldier" routine illl-fits him. That's supposed to be Magnus' bag, not Optimus.

zmog

 

^ I think there is a very large conceptual and mythological difference between a soldier and a peace officer. I think the Roberts Pax is inspired.

 

Nah... I think he's OBVIOUS.

The soldier imagery is something that has popped up in other continuities. Meanwhile, Roberts' Officer Pax was a good cop... but he was still basically Robocop, and the character is still predominantly defined by his attachment to a paramilitary institutional control structure. He wasn't a frontier lawman, integrated into a community in a "shepherding" capacity. He was an overachieving by-the-books city cop who was in a "war on crime".

Personally, I would have preferred to see an Optimus/Orion who comes from a NON-military background (and not the usual nerd-to-superhero transformation we saw with Optronix in War Within). Tom Hanks' character from Saving Private Ryan comes to mind... in peacetime he was a teacher, a family man, a member of his community. But in the face of war he, like many others, decided to take a stand, and as it turns out, he was a very good leader of men. To me, that was always who Prime was... and that was always the spirit implied in his old G1 TF Universe bio. He's a scholar, a doctor, a statesman, a poet... but the tragedy is that he is forced instead to be a killer... a warrior who (very adeptly) must use the violence he hates to achieve a greater good.

I think in that reading of Optimus there is a poignant symbol of how war changes us on a personal level, and makes us all victims. Starting his career as a cop doesn't quite deliver that idea with quite as much strength.

zmog

 

It will be interesting to see where Roberts goes with Spotlight Orion Pax. It almost sounds like he's going to be having a wandering the desert to find himself kind of phase.

 

I'm a bit torn. I love the novel/TF Prime characterization of Prime as a librarian under Alpha Trion. Seeing him grasp with Megatron's philosophy was quite interesting. On the other hand, I kind of feel like the militaristic version is more in line with IDW's overall universe. There were no heavy thinkers in the main ranks, just oppressive Autobots and rebellious Decepticons.

In any case, I think we can all agree anything is better than a dock worker who admired the fact that Megatron could fly.  

 

I think that's the deficiency of the IDW version of pre-war Cybertron. It's too binary... or it was, anyway. And what's wrong with having an Optimus who wasn't in the "main ranks" to begin with, but who only came to prominence in a grass-roots way once the war took hold.

I suppose in a way, that's what they did with Hot Rod... but I think it would suit Optimus much better.

There is that. I think the Optimus origin is maybe one of those things (of many in Transformers) that was left obscure in different corners of the media for so long, that fans have really started to supplement with their own imagined versions. In that sense, it might be one of those things best left untold... like the Star Wars prequels, after a certain amount of time, telling that story only robs it of some of its power.

zmog

 

I'm kinda hoping that the Spotlight: Orion Pax will give a bit about his life pre-cop. like maybe he was that librarian under Alpha Trion, then the war broke out and he became a cop, then Prime. *crosses fingers*

 

We can agree to disagree, but I don't think Police Optimus was "obvious." There wasn't really any textual support for that occupation for OP pre-war. I think it's an original riff off of Optimus' interest in justice. Which honestly, hasn't shined through all that often, the "freedom" ideals are more usually the emphasis, with a streak of conflicted pacifism. I think the justice motif in some ways meshes better with Optimus' role as a symbol of benevolent authority. Even when he's an underdog, he's not a bomb-thrower.

And I think it works well as a contrast with Miner Megatron. They start off targeting the same corrupt system, but Megatron's reasons were basically selfish (he got dealt a bad hand) and Orion's basically selfless (he could have just walked away, any time, but he just had to help that one bot who didn't deserve his beating).

Mind you, I also like the Aligned thing where Orion is an intellectual and Megatron is, well, the same as in IDW, but they emphasize his gladiator side more than his blue-collar side. That debate is a little more intellectual and society-oriented at its core.

 

I wonder if we'll ever see the Quintessons in IDWs Transformers. They are the only thing that I would like to see again. When they can come up with that, maybe like it was "hinted" in here, that would be awesome!

I mean it was hinted at the Quintessons in Wheelie's spotlight and I thought there could be more.

 

What war? Pax was already a cop by the time the Autobot/Decepticon war broke out.

And Roberts said at Auto Assembly 2012 that he hasn't been keeping up with modern TF and knows little about what's going on, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

I think we'll be seeing them soon in RiD...

 

See, I feel that "cop" is a really marginal step apart from his "soldier/warrior" depictions. Plus, his preoccupation with "freedom" also to me feels at odds with his role as a cog in a paramilitary establishment like a police force, particularly one as stagnant and sterile as the one depicted in IDW. When we talk of archetypes that are often applied to police officers in fiction, I don't think any of them particularly gel with the Optimus Prime concept (except perhaps the idea of the frontier lawman).

I do agree that he forms an interesting binary with IDW Megatron's revolutionary identity... as a tool of the establishment and symbol of a conservative social order to be contrasted with Megatron's radical anarchist beginnings. I think that, in the self-contained sense, that works fine. Just in terms of the larger conception of Optimus Prime as an entity, I think it falls too much in line with the militaristic tendency that I already don't like in Optimus origins.

To compare to others, I like the blue-collar aspect of the cartoon Orion Pax origin, the idea that he's "close to the people"... but that's all I like about it.

DW's Optronix was far too dour, cynical and sterile as a character. His life was solely inhabiting the world of data, and all of his dynamism and defining love of life/freedom seems to have been attached to him along with the deus ex machina of his arbitrary selection as Matrix holder. He didn't "grow into" Optimus Prime organically.

Similarly I'm not sure how I feel about this new "archivist with Alpha Trion" origin. That again, is partially due to my disdain for the "nerdy bookworm suddenly becomes respectable hero due to magic intervention" stereoptype.

At least in IDW (and to some degree, in WFC) Prime seems to have earned his role by coming up through the ranks, establishing himself as a popular leader before being given the gold key, so to speak.

zmog

 

Hate to revive old threads but does anyone remeber what happened to the Sparkeater & Ore? Swerve thought Ore went to heavn Skids said he went with the Titian what about the Sparkeater? Is it possible that both are on cybertron now?

 

But as the Metrotitan exploded with underground city, I doubt they are alive.

 

Ore mabye, Sparkeater though seems kinda spry plus there was enough time for him to be found and spoken with mabye Ore could have walked away and Sparkeater escaped into the wilds.

 

I've wondered if maybe the Metrotitan teleported Ore to Hedonia. He mentions to Swerve that him and Shock were planning on leaving the Lost Light when they got there, and while it was probably just a throwaway line, MTMTE #13 has the LL stopping off on Hedonia for shore leave. Could lead to a slightly confusing reunion for everyone involved?

 

Nah, they got left behind in the disintegration bubble.  

zmog

 

I disagree. Pax follows the law, but at the same time, he wants to change the system from inside, but without rocking it to it´s core, which would and led to, guess what, civil war.

In a sense you can draw a parallel between Gorbachev, who despite adhering to a corrupt system, knew changes had to be made, but not too fast or the whole thing might go the way of the dodo.

 

Yeah, and that's not how I see Optimus Prime. I see him as a free-thinking civilian by choice, a hard-worker, a philosopher and a humanitarian, but not necessarily a bureaucrat, and definitely not a career soldier. To me, it always seemed like soldiering was the type of thing that should have been forced on him by circumstances of the war (as it was most Autobots).

Also, while I love the way that Roberts is playing Pax in MTMTE, I think that when we first meet him, he is not necessarily "changing the system from within". He's just a very driven police officer, an over-achiever even... but still a cog in a paramilitary institution. He's started dipping into revolutionary poetry (Megatron's as it turns out) but is hardly working outside of his purview or thinking big. Obviously the events of Chaos Theory end up radicalizing him (to some degree at least) but we don't get the impression that before that he was much more than just a very dedicated cop.

zmog

 

Hardly thinking big? he stole the matrix!

EDIT:: For the comics, I see Optimus as someone who joined the police force to help do what's right, though, upon finding out those he worked for were corrupt at well, fought back against the system, standing up for freedom and whathave you (though I havent read Chaos Theory yet, getting it next week. Just going off what I know from everything else I've seen. Also sometimes think the Matrix gave him a bit more confidence, wisdom, and helped him prioritize a bit (if that makes any sense)

 

When I said "thinking big" I didn't mean in terms of audacity, but rather meant "deep". A kind of almost spiritual soul.

Chaos Theory is a good read, and fits in very solidly with the Shadowplay flashback story. We see Pax as a highly decorated police captain, but we still don't know much about his past.

In IDW, it doesn't seem like the Matrix really gives you any of that. It does grant access to a sort of shared memory bank from past Primes, but doesn't seem to radically change the bearer's personality to any significant degree. I tend to prefer it that way, since I'd rather see Pax/Optimus earn his role without being helped along by magic personality enhancers.  

zmog