I wanted to start this thread to see what the very most important things about Transformers fiction are to fans. This is about Transformers fiction specifically and not fiction in general. Transformers fans have a wide variety of opinions as to what a good Transformers show, comic, or film whould be, and I don't think there is a single answer that everyone would agree on. Personally, the single most important part of Transformers fiction is that the Transformers are alien robots that think and feel like we do. Like us they are sentient, and we can relate to them in some ways, but at the same time they are life as we don't know it, so they have alien biology and some times see things very differently from ourselves. Of course, there can be Transformers that are drones or non-sentient, or there can be Earth-made Transformers like Prime Nemesis, but at least some of them should be intelligent, alien beings that have emotions. Of course, there also need to be some examples of transformation(it is Transformers after all), but the bulk of the focus in a Transformers story should be on the personalities and characters of the robots themselves. Granted, this is just my opinion. Other things, like how close characters are to their previous incarnations, or the depiction the Autobot-Decepticon war, may be just as important or more important to other fans, but to me those are nowhere near as important. Otherwise I wouldn't love the Beast Era, and I actually love it when Transformers features other factions, neutral Transformers, and free agents. We all have our preferences. Perhaps what's most important to you is something different entirely? Is there even a single most important part of Transformers fiction to you, or is it two or three or more things? If it is a single thing, then what is it? Feel free to share your opinions as to what is the most important thing(s) in Transformers fiction!
It's definitely the characters imo. They're probably what has kept the franchise going strong after all these years. Although recently the characters in the recent shows/movies have been...a mixed bag
yeah, characters are what matter most, no matter what setting or plot there may be, having good charcters is what pulls it all together to make the story. look at the current RID series. based on the plot, there were only two groups that could have worked in the setting: either the ragtag band trying to work as a team, like the show has, or the more hardcore and tough soldiers/mercenary types, but it wouldn't be the same if you had a team like the g1 or unicron trilogy type autobot groups. that is where you see that the characters are what make the show/comic/story.
Characters are an important aspect of fiction. ...buuuuuut Transformers doesn't really have any that are that complex or developed.
Honestly, I think Transformers characters have always been a mixed bag. With fiction that features a large cast of characters there tend to be lots of characters I like, but there will also be plenty of characters I'm apathetic to or even hate. G1 is a great example of this. It probably has the most characters that I like simply by virtue of its large cast, but by the same token it easily has the most characters I hate, too. Smaller casts have their own risks, too. On one hand, I think it's easier to create an interesting group dynamic and give more attention to characters with a smaller cast. On the other hand, if the group dynamic is not fun or interesting, and the characters aren't interesting, then it won't be enjoyable for long at all. At least with the larger casts you know you'll get to characters that you like sooner or later. I'd say my very favorite Transformers casts are generally those with smaller casts. Beast Wars/Beast Machines and AOE are both examples of fiction with relatively small robot casts and fun group dynamics. On the other hand, Prime has a small cast, but I don't care for too many characters from Prime, nor do I think it has a fun group dynamic. Of course, there's always the possibility for a medium-sized cast. The strength of that is that you can have a core group, and you can also have other characters that don't play a role in every season or episode, but are still memorable when they do appear due to there not being an overabundance of characters. Animated is a perfect example of this. It has a larger cast than Prime or Beast Wars, but it doesn't have so many characters that a lot of them are unmemorable or don't do anything, which is a problem G1 has with many of its characters. Of course, we all have preferences for how Transformers characters are portrayed and to how they should interact with each other in between and within factions, but either way I agree totally that the Transformers as characters is what is most important.
Oh most defiantly the characters, I can just about name every character from G1 from 1984 up to 1989 at least with cartoon and comic only characters thrown in. They are easily the most recognizable part of the franchise, I mean heck my parents easily recognize at least Optimus Prime & Bumblebee without knowing much about Transformers. Another part for me anyway is the mythos. Like their origin stories, original thirteen, Primus, Unicron, all that cool stuff is really important in my opinion. It helps strengthen the brand to have such a rich and expansive universe and makes it stand above expanded universe of things like Star Wars and Marvel in my eyes.
I'm willing to accept damn near anything as long as I'm reasonably convinced the characters actually live with each other; likewise, zero chemistry between anyone can (and often does) kill any interest I might've had. Really, of all the plot twists and world building and everything, what I best remember tends to be the small things. Stuff like Primal and Terrorsaur imitating Megatron's mannerisms (yesssss), Thrust coming up with a lame nickname because he's tired of being called "Squidhead", Optimus laughing at Sentinel Prime's severed head ("You promised you wouldn't laugh!"), Sky-Byte's attempts at... well, everything and anything. Nothing 'epic' or earth-shattering, but that's the charm.
It's totally the characters, however, good world building is just as important. I love the movies as far as the characters (mostly in the design department) but the world around them is a jumbled mess. Every decepticon in the TF07 movie were very memorable, but who were they? The movies that follow seem to retcon (am I using it right?) stuff in (we all know the Movieverse flaws, moving on) and it affects what is creatively available to character building. Noidea, the Movieverse had very little if none of the 'small things'. Prime had some more, a personal favourite is Prime and Magnus kilt/Fowler discussion. Animated had some unique takes on certain characters, initially I didnt care much about it as the art style wasnt my cup of tea at the time but the individual characters were instantly memorable. Blitzwing is truly unique here (to my knowledge) and being able to bounce off Lugnut's character traits you feel more like they are deep characters with their own feelings and motivations. The worldbuilding around them was simple but clear, rich enough to lend to each persona. We saw the whats and whys to who they are. So, its a cohesion thing. We love the characters most, concerning fleshing them out, the more the merrier. Volume vs. Focus is a double edged sword, finding the right balance is tricky.
So the mythos/world-building and, as Noideaforaname says, "the little things" are two other things a fan could consider most important in Transformers. I also agree that a more interesting fictional universe will result in a more interesting work of fiction. Of course, what makes a fictional universe interesting will vary from person-to-person and on the context of the continuity. The little details can go either way. Details some fans may like may be hated by others. There are definitely details in Transformers fiction that seem minor, but that can do a lot for fans. For instance, I love it in "The Golden Lagoon" when Beachcomber somberly says, "We won," while witnessing the ruined the landscape.
Characters and the world building. The stories are honestly never that inspired or creative but the character are what became the memorable part of the franchise.
Here's my list: 1) They're aliens, similar to us, yet different. They feel happiness, sadness, anger and other emotions which makes them similar to us. But they are alien in the way they react or percive certain things. I remember reading first issues of Marvel G1, where Gears 'died' and how humans were upset, but Autobots treated it like no big deal (Gears could be rebuild after all). Transformers can be dismantled or beheaded and than safely put together. In old G1 they were virtually immortal (until plot demanded otherwise). They practically don't age, so their preception of time is different than ours. These attributes lead to diffrent view on various situation. What do you do with tyrants, when the war ends? Do you forgive and forget? Should the guilty repent? If so, then for how long? An eternity? Should they be killed? Can they be killed? There is no assurance they won't be rebuild in the future (like Ironhide in IDW G1). 2) Little romance. In most series romantic relationships between characters are a must (the worst is pairing off every character in the show). I really appreciate that Transformers explored other bonds between characters like best friends, frenemies, enemies, brothers, brothers in arms, mentors-proteges and didn't treat those relationships like less worthy than romantic ones. I'm thinking about the dynamic between Rattrap and Dinobot in BW. Personally, I liked the father-son relationship of Optimus Primal and Cheetor. There's also the love-hate dynamic between Megatron and Starscream in old G1. In Armada there was a story of good friends turning enemies (Wheeljack and Hot Shot) and the angst it caused. There are romantic relationships in Transformers, but I really like that there is a place for other types of bonds and both are treated as important to characters. 3) The villains don't get the standard villain treatment. In most series the villains are that -- villains, but in Transformers fiction they get to be characters as well. We get to know them the same way we get to know the good guys. Usually, the villain tries to conquer the world, gets beaten by the hero, escapes than comes back and tries to do the same thing again. In Transformers we get to see what they do between trying to conquer the world. I mean in Prime we got to see Starscream wandering around Earth after he lost his spot on Nemesis and having adventures (or rather misadventures). The whole episode 'Thirst' was dedicated to Decepticons. Personally, I can't remember other instances of villains getting their own episodes that would solely focus on them being them. Usually, when the villain gets their episode it's to present their backstory or to progress the story further. I mean compare the number of fans of Captain America and Red Skull and the number of fans of Optimus Prime and Megatron. While I can say that Captain is more popular than Red Skull, I can't say the same thing about Optimus and Megatron. In Splatfest you could choose to join Team Autobot or Team Decepticon and in the end Decepticons won. Can you imagine the same situation with Avengers or Justice League? I mean who would sign up on Team Enemies of Avangers? That's all for now
Great personalities with character development and amazing fights, strike a good balance with those two elements and you got a great Transformers media. At least in my opinion that is.
Wow! Great post overall, but I really like and agree with your first one since that's exactly what I was getting at with my most important thing. It's also specific to Transformers as a brand, which is the purpose of this thread.
Yup. I really like that Transformers put certain things into different perspective. I mean in original G1 they crash landed on prehistoric Earth, 4 millions years passed, they woke up and restarted their war like that 4 million years didn't happen. Because what's the passing of time to a Transformer? They can spend hundreds of years traveling through space and they don't feel it! After all, they have all the time in the universe to spare, they don't really die of old age. Some of them are older than entire civilizations or stars. It puts things into perspective: they waged war longer than current human civilization, who's to say they won't wage it after we are gone? Moreover how long does the animosity between Transformers last? Do they stop hating each other after certain number of centuries passed and move to another target. Do they not mention it the next time they meet? Do they simply forget and move on? After all, there's not much that cannot be repaired, so to an extent the concept of permanent damage doesn't apply to them. If damage can be repaired why hold a grudge? I came up with some other things that skipped my mind in the last post: 4) The transformation gimmick. In some ways it's the essence of Transformers most people forget about because it's so obvious. I started with Beast Wars and the ability to change from robot to beast was the selling point to me. I'm not certain what was the more important factor that they were robots or that they could change forms. Next there was Armada and they still didn't loose the appeal. Personally, I really liked the way Optimus combined into a bigger mode with his trailer or how he combined with Jetfire to form Jet Optimus. The Minicons could also combine to form the Star Sabre or Skyboom Shield. In G1 there were combiners, but there were also headmasters (I liked G1 Rebirth), targetmasters or even pretenders. There were all interesting ideas that show how limitless was Transformers potential to transform or change forms. Moreover, Transformers could take any form, be it a car, a bulldozer, a fighter jet, a motorboat or something else. I'm a little bummed that in recent years (Prime and Bay movies) the brand kind of reverted to cars vs jets. It's visible in movies where most Autobots are sports cars. I know it's for commercial reasons, but they could use a little more diversity in that department. I kind of like the new Robots in Disguise, because they veered off that pattern (although Autobots are still cars). There were Decepticons with alt modes of a tractor, a submarine, a construction vehicle. Usually the transformations are from a humanoid robot to a vehicle or a beast. Currently, we also have a beast turn into a vehicle and that's fun! Transformers aren't humans therefore they should not be restricted by human body standards. In Beast Wars Uprising comics some characters have robot mode of a centaur, a minotaur or Medusa. Vertebreak in RiD has a snake-like form with an artificial arm harness and transforms into a train. Onyx Prime has a form of winged centaur. In Bay movies one of DOTM Dreads - Hatchet - was quadrupedal. I think the biggest hurdle with non-humanoid forms is that the audience may have trouble treating them as people (a frog is less intelligent than a human after all). Until I read G1 comics I was under impression that Ravage was merely some extension of Soundwave when in reality he's his own person. 5) The scale. I'm not thinking about the size of the titans or city transformers, but about how far reaching is the Autobot-Decepticon war. It spans throughout the galaxies and centuries. I think that to most aliens species (including humans) Transformers are some behemoths beyond imagining. They come, make war on some world and then leave it shattered. And there isn't much that can stop them, because the laws of biological life doesn't apply to them. I'm curious if the current IDW comics will explore the concept of some alien species allying against Transformers. 6) A unique combination of science-fiction and mysticism. Transformers are robotic beings capable of interstellar travel, that most of the time operate with the effectivness of a supercomputer, which makes it a SF story. But they also entrtain elements that give them a Lord of the Rings vibe. There is an origin story of dueling gods, the concept of Allspark/Afterspark, the First Thirtin. There is Vector Sigma which may simply be a supercomputer or some ancient being. There's the Matrix of Leadership which may be just some tool or real mystical artifact of old. I like that despite their SF roots Transformers doesn't stray from supernatural or superstitions (see Starscream ghost or the concept that only a Prime can kill a Prime). (And again it's a wall of text.)
Characters and World Building. I hate silliness. I'm not against comedy but just pure silliness which the movies and Animated were guilty of especially with humans. Also things like hair or accents really take away from a series for me. If I don't like the look of a series it can impact on my enjoyment of it no matter how well written. I love Beast Wars but the animal heads on Waspinator and Silverbolt seemed wrong to me to say nothing of Rattraps buck teeth in robot mode. Same with RID. Overall I'm enjoying it but I don't like the animal based robot modes of some of the cons or Sideswipes hair. I know the topic is about fiction but my enjoyment of the fiction is hindered when I think the characters just look wrong or silly. I miss the traditional G1 look. Anything like Brains or Bulkhead just irritate me.
I think there's a time and place in Transformers for both seriousness and silliness. If anything, I wish there was more silliness in Transformers and super hero franchises. The entire concept of transforming robots from Cybertron is silly, and that's one thing I love about it. I love Webworld, and even though it has serious moments it's still silly. I love a lot of the sillier, sometimes derided Season 2 episodes. That doesn't mean I want things as dumb as B.O.T., but you can get my drift. I love Rhinox farting. I love AOE Hound's one liners. I even like ROTF Devastator's wrecking balls even if Devastator should have done more; they may be crude, but I'd rather have something be crude than joyless. Also, I really like a wide variety of designs. I love the designs and aesthetics of G1, Beast Wars, IDW, and the Bay films. I don't even care much for RID 2015, but one thing I do love is the animal Con designs, although I do wish there were a few more humanoid Cons mixed in. Animated admittedly took getting used to personally, but now I really like the Animated designs, too. However, I do think the designs have to match the universe. I wouldn't want G1 designs for Beast Wars or the Bayverse, nor would I want all Transformers to have a Bayverse aesthetic.
I agree while the episode "Webworld" for the most part terrified me and my brother, I did manage to find some hilarious moments in the episode. I think I like when writers kind find a good mix between comedic and seriousness, they can make a entertaining show, like Gravity Falls for example, it had both its share of silliness and dark and serious moments and struck a balance well where you didn't feel like one side was overpowering the other.
The planet Cybertron needs to be a focal point as well as the TF homeworld. The TFs have to be natives that naturally evolved on it Science fact: Silicon based life has a greater chance and more options in terms of environments they're capable of living in, meaning the universe probably has far more silicon based life forms than carbon based (TFs, being all metal, would be silicon based life, for those that do not understand the difference, we're carbon). Cybertron must have at one time been a wonderful place with a golden age. A war started, for whatever reason, that has been going on so long that the formerly paradise like world of Cybertron is now a burnt out dying husk and none of the 'current generation' of Transformers saw the start of it. The TFs must go into space and travel to other worlds. To be more precise: 1-The Autobots must be going out for peaceful purposes, which includes protecting worlds from Decepticons. 2-The Decepticons must be going out to exploit and ransack other worlds to bring resources back to Cybertron to try to re-ignite the world as an important and livable world. *Replace Autobots and Decepticons in this instance with any factions that replace them for whatever universe/era, such as Maximals and Predacons. The Autobots must be formerly civilians or prefer to be civilians (Or more simply: They're reluctant soldiers) that begrudge the fact that they must fight a war, and/or are very war-weary, but do so because it is The Right Thing to Do. Further, they should all be friendly to one another, like a 'Band of Brothers'. The Decepticons must be Robo-Objectivists. Power dictates right. Might makes right. They'd destroy the entire universe just to achieve their goals if they felt like it and no one was capable of opposing them. Further, they must either be all out for themselves or cling together in packs/cliques and bully one another to vie for pack dominance. I prefer there being colony worlds, such as seen in Cybertron, because that further enhances a fallen golden age aspect. Yellow and purple lasers a plus. Transformations a given. No psychologists. No bartenders. No pretending to be a real hero when you aren't by wearing the dead body of the real hero (or armor made to look like the real hero's dead body).
World-building is great, but like everyone else has said, it's really the characters. Like, RID2015 isn't really that great a show in terms of writing or plot ideas, but I watch it anyway because I can still enjoy Grimlock's antics, Steeljaw's charm, and Bumblebee's professionalism being put on hold to enjoy music and movies that put off the rest of the cast. It's just a lot of fun, despite some obvious plot problems that should be addressed in future seasons.
